Ah, traditional marriage. We really should do everything in our power to preserve it.

Who cares? Look at what is happening today.

This is an excellent explanation of slaves and concubines and how Islam required they be treated.

Remember, slavery and having concubines was accepted practice throughout history. Islam systematically eradicated it.

http://islamicresponse.blogspot.com/2011/06/islam-on-slave-girlsconcubines.html?m=1

So the pp asked where in the Bible does it permit concubinage. That has now been shown. And here's the story of Abraham's concubine, Hagar in www.womenofthebible.com. It looks like as concubine, her status was elevated to that of a secondary wife. But did she have much choice in having sex with Abraham? I do not think rape is permissible in any of the three great religions, but women who were concubines were expected to have sex and they did. They were taken care of the same way a secondary wife would be taken care of. Islam actually asked owners to either free them or marry them. Here, the Bible says children of concubines could be sold. But I believe Islam forbid this, as children of concubines had to be treated the same as one's own children.

From www.womwninthebible.com:
Was Hagar consulted in the matter? There is no information on this. Ancient people assumed she would leap at the opportunity. For a woman in Hagar's position, the prospect of becoming pregnant to the leader of the clan was an honor, and would result in a dramatic rise in her social status. No longer a slave, she would become an important concubine or secondary wife, definitely a step up in the world. Eventually, she might be the mother of the tribe's leader, which would make her Queen Bee of the tribe.

'Sarah, Abraham's wife, took Hagar the Egyptian, her slave-girl, and gave her to her husband Abram as a wife. He went in to Hagar, and she conceived; and when she saw that she had conceived, she looked with contempt on her mistress.'
Read Genesis 16:1-6.

Something went wrong between Hagar and Sarah after Hagar became pregnant. Sarah was daily confronted by the other woman's success at conceiving a child, and believed that Hagar no longer gave her the deference she deserved. For her part, Hagar may have enjoyed being treated with respect for the first time in her life, and did not bother to hide her pleasure.

'How did people end up as slaves? If they fell into debt and could not pay, they might sell themselves as a slave, though usually for a limited period. Even then, they would be released on payment of the debt. Children could be sold by their parents in payment for a debt.'
Slavery in the Bible

The women fell out, and Sarah berated Abraham for what had happened. It was all his fault, she said. Abraham pointed out, quite rightly, that it was not in his power to do anything, since Sarah was still in charge of the women of the tribe, and Hagar was under her jurisdiction, not his.

This gives us some inkling of the property rights and social power of the woman who led the tribe. She, not her husband, ruled the other tribal women and was responsible for them.

In response to Abraham's words, Sarah 'humbled' Hagar - the narrator ironically uses the same word that described the treatment of Hebrew slaves in Egypt at the time of Moses. Sarah humbled an Egyptian, as the Egyptians would one day humble Sarah’s descendants. What this 'humbling' entailed we do not know, but it was severe enough to drive Hagar away, fleeing from the relative safety of the tribe out into the bleak landscape. Pregnant, she headed south in a desperate attempt to get back to her lost home and family in Egypt.

'The angel of the LORD found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the way to Shur. And he said 'Hagar, slave-girl of Sarah

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slavery was common among all people throughout history. The Quran required slaves to be treated with respect. It encouraged the release of slaves and God promised the atonement of sins if a slave was freed. It encouraged masters to marry their (believing) female slaves or to get them married. In this way, Islam slowly began to eradicate slavery.

Remember - the Bible too speaks about slaves and lays down laws regarding the treatment of slaves.
“If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.”– [Exodus 21:20-21]

But in Islam, in those days when slaves were often abused, God required slaves be treated with respect. They had to be cared for the same way a wife would be cared for. So essentially she was very similar to a wife ( think Abraham and Hagar). If your slave asks not to be used in prostitution so you can earn an income, God required masters to respect that. The respect God required masters to give slaves was extraordinary in those times.

But did masters have sex with slaves and did God permit it? Yes. Very common in those times in all major religions.

I'm thinking Abraham and Hagar, OK - what happened to Hagar? Used as a vessel, then tossed out to the desert with nothing. Is that what you had in mind?

She was tossed out by whom? Sarah. Because Sarah became jealous that Hagar bore Abraham a son and she could not. The religion or God did not command that Hagar be tossed out. So blame Sarah, not God, and nor religion.

Anonymous wrote:Slavery was common among all people throughout history. The Quran required slaves to be treated with respect. It encouraged the release of slaves and God promised the atonement of sins if a slave was freed. It encouraged masters to marry their (believing) female slaves or to get them married. In this way, Islam slowly began to eradicate slavery.

Remember - the Bible too speaks about slaves and lays down laws regarding the treatment of slaves.
“If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.”– [Exodus 21:20-21]

But in Islam, in those days when slaves were often abused, God required slaves be treated with respect. They had to be cared for the same way a wife would be cared for. So essentially she was very similar to a wife ( think Abraham and Hagar). If your slave asks not to be used in prostitution so you can earn an income, God required masters to respect that. The respect God required masters to give slaves was extraordinary in those times.

But did masters have sex with slaves and did God permit it? Yes. Very common in those times in all major religions.

I'm thinking Abraham and Hagar, OK - what happened to Hagar? Used as a vessel, then tossed out to the desert with nothing. Is that what you had in mind?

Anonymous wrote:This writer of this blog pulls from various sources, but most importantly, provides support directly from the Quran about Islam's position on concubines. Keep in mind 1500 hundred years ago war time produced slaves and Islam dedicated a few verses to explain how they should be treated.

http://islamicresponse.blogspot.com/2011/06/islam-on-slave-girlsconcubines.html


For those who do not have time to read this in it's entirety, here is a summary:

"Below are three English translations to the Verse where Allah commands the Muslim men to not force their slave women into sex.
The following translations were taken from http://mama.stg.brown.edu/webs/quran_browser/pqeasy.shtml

I think you meant to say "Not to force their slave women into sex with other people for the financial benefit of their owner."

It doesn't mean don't have sex with a slave woman YOURSELF.

There is no reference anywhere in the scripture to "if the slave woman doesn't want to have sex with HER OWNER, let her be." Nowhere is the slavewoman presumed to have any choice in the matter of having sex with her owner or not. In fact, the blog you referenced says they were "allocated" by a state. Nice.

So,fixed that for you.

Anonymous wrote:Slavery was common among all people throughout history. The Quran required slaves to be treated with respect. It encouraged the release of slaves and God promised the atonement of sins if a slave was freed. It encouraged masters to marry their (believing) female slaves or to get them married. In this way, Islam slowly began to eradicate slavery.

Remember - the Bible too speaks about slaves and lays down laws regarding the treatment of slaves.
“If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.”– [Exodus 21:20-21]

But in Islam, in those days when slaves were often abused, God required slaves be treated with respect. They had to be cared for the same way a wife would be cared for. So essentially she was very similar to a wife ( think Abraham and Hagar). If your slave asks not to be used in prostitution so you can earn an income, God required masters to respect that. The respect God required masters to give slaves was extraordinary in those times.

But did masters have sex with slaves and did God permit it? Yes. Very common in those times in all major religions.

Don't be ridiculous. Similar to a wife? Yeah, sure, sex for both.

But: no consent, no dowry, no right to leave, could be bought, sold and passed around, no choice in upbringing of children.

Otherwise, just like a wife.

If you live together without being married, you are a concubine

And more evidence the Bible permitted concubinage...


2 Samuel 5:13

And David took more concubines and wives from Jerusalem, after he came from Hebron, and more sons and daughters were born to David.

Judges 19:1-30 ESV

In those days, when there was no king in Israel, a certain Levite was sojourning in the remote parts of the hill country of Ephraim, who took to himself a concubine from Bethlehem in Judah. And his concubine was unfaithful to him, and she went away from him to her father's house at Bethlehem in Judah, and was there some four months. Then her husband arose and went after her, to speak kindly to her and bring her back. He had with him his servant and a couple of donkeys. And she brought him into her father's house. And when the girl's father saw him, he came with joy to meet him. And his father-in-law, the girl's father, made him stay, and he remained with him three days. So they ate and drank and spent the night there. And on the fourth day they arose early in the morning, and he prepared to go, but the girl's father said to his son-in-law, “Strengthen your heart with a morsel of bread, and after that you may go.”

Exodus 21:10 ESV

If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights.

Genesis 4:19 ESV

And Lamech took two wives. The name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.

Ecclesiastes 2:3 ESV

I searched with my heart how to cheer my body with wine—my heart still guiding me with wisdom—and how to lay hold on folly, till I might see what was good for the children of man to do under heaven during the few days of their life.

Luke 16:18 ESV

“Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery.

Psalm 138:1 ESV

Of David. I give you thanks, O Lord, with my whole heart; before the gods I sing your praise;

Proverbs 31:6-7 ESV

Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more.

Exodus 20:5 ESV

You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,

1 Timothy 3:2 ESV

Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

Deuteronomy 25:11 ESV

“When men fight with one another and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts,

Deuteronomy 21:15 ESV

“If a man has two wives, the one loved and the other unloved, and both the loved and the unloved have borne him children, and if the firstborn son belongs to the unloved,

Leviticus 25:44-46 ESV

As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.

Exodus 34:7 ESV

Keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.”

Acts 16:1-40 ESV

Paul came also to Derbe and to Lystra. A disciple was there, named Timothy, the son of a Jewish woman who was a believer, but his father was a Greek. He was well spoken of by the brothers at Lystra and Iconium. Paul wanted Timothy to accompany him, and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those places, for they all knew that his father was a Greek. As they went on their way through the cities, they delivered to them for observance the decisions that had been reached by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem. So the churches were strengthened in the faith, and they increased in numbers daily.

Zechariah 14:1-21

Behold, a day is coming for the Lord, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in your midst. For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women raped. Half of the city shall go out into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations as when he fights on a day of battle. On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives that lies before Jerusalem on the east, and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley, so that one half of the Mount shall move northward, and the other half southward. And you shall flee to the valley of my mountains, for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal. And you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

Genesis 6:1-22 ESV

When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of

Did the Bible talk about concubinage too?

Yes. See "concubinage" in wikipedia:
"..biblical figures such as Gideon, and Solomon had concubines in addition to many childbearing wives. For example, the Books of Kings say that Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines."

Slavery was common among all people throughout history. The Quran required slaves to be treated with respect. It encouraged the release of slaves and God promised the atonement of sins if a slave was freed. It encouraged masters to marry their (believing) female slaves or to get them married. In this way, Islam slowly began to eradicate slavery.

Remember - the Bible too speaks about slaves and lays down laws regarding the treatment of slaves.
“If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.”– [Exodus 21:20-21]

But in Islam, in those days when slaves were often abused, God required slaves be treated with respect. They had to be cared for the same way a wife would be cared for. So essentially she was very similar to a wife ( think Abraham and Hagar). If your slave asks not to be used in prostitution so you can earn an income, God required masters to respect that. The respect God required masters to give slaves was extraordinary in those times.

But did masters have sex with slaves and did God permit it? Yes. Very common in those times in all major religions.

Anonymous wrote:This writer of this blog pulls from various sources, but most importantly, provides support directly from the Quran about Islam's position on concubines. Keep in mind 1500 hundred years ago war time produced slaves and Islam dedicated a few verses to explain how they should be treated.

http://islamicresponse.blogspot.com/2011/06/islam-on-slave-girlsconcubines.html


For those who do not have time to read this in it's entirety, here is a summary:

"Below are three English translations to the Verse where Allah commands the Muslim men to not force their slave women into sex.
The following translations were taken from http://mama.stg.brown.edu/webs/quran_browser/pqeasy.shtml

Translation: Yusufali:

"Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them), (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

Translation: Pickthall:

"And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah give them independence by His grace. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

Translation: Shakir:

"And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

In all three translations, we clearly see that if the slave woman desires to keep chaste, then her Muslim master must not compel her into sex. It might sound odd to us today, but pagans back then were used to having sex with and raping their slave girls, even the ones who were married…"

No, that means that her Muslim master may not pimp her out to others for money. It doesn't mean the "slave woman" is free to refuse sex with her "Muslim master." "Chaste" doesn't mean "celibate." It means "only has sex with people she's supposed to."

In fact, I have not seen this particular scenario addressed anywhere in the Muslim writing on the subject. Usually it goes deep into the direction of "how lucky that captive is that now she has a Muslim to protect her, and isn't it awesome that they are allowed to have sex since she has needs too and it would be UNFAIR to deny them."

So....all those men who are kidnapping women and girls and "selling" them or "marrying" them -- what are they basing that on? I'm talking about today.

This writer of this blog pulls from various sources, but most importantly, provides support directly from the Quran about Islam's position on concubines. Keep in mind 1500 hundred years ago war time produced slaves and Islam dedicated a few verses to explain how they should be treated.

http://islamicresponse.blogspot.com/2011/06/islam-on-slave-girlsconcubines.html


For those who do not have time to read this in it's entirety, here is a summary:

"Below are three English translations to the Verse where Allah commands the Muslim men to not force their slave women into sex.
The following translations were taken from http://mama.stg.brown.edu/webs/quran_browser/pqeasy.shtml

Translation: Yusufali:

"Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them), (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

Translation: Pickthall:

"And let those who cannot find a match keep chaste till Allah give them independence by His grace. And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation), write it for them if ye are aware of aught of good in them, and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you. Force not your slave-girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. And if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! Allah will be Forgiving, Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

Translation: Shakir:

"And let those who do not find the means to marry keep chaste until Allah makes them free from want out of His grace. And (as for) those who ask for a writing from among those whom your right hands possess, give them the writing if you know any good in them, and give them of the wealth of Allah which He has given you; and do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, when they desire to keep chaste, in order to seek the frail good of this world's life; and whoever compels them, then surely after their compulsion Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 24:33)"

In all three translations, we clearly see that if the slave woman desires to keep chaste, then her Muslim master must not compel her into sex. It might sound odd to us today, but pagans back then were used to having sex with and raping their slave girls, even the ones who were married…"