Anonymous wrote:I am a christian from pakistan. Our family fled in late 90s due to the muslim violence. I was a teenager. The muslims would kill anyone that was different. We were treated like animals.

Don't worry, they are still doing it, but they are running out of Christians to kill, so they are turning to Shia.

I am a christian from pakistan. Our family fled in late 90s due to the muslim violence. I was a teenager. The muslims would kill anyone that was different. We were treated like animals.

I'm not afraid of Islamic people. But I hate Islamofacist terrorists.

Anonymous wrote:As such, the Islam practiced by some people in Muslim countries is not necessarily pure Islam or true Islam. It is influenced by a deeply entrenched, patriarchal belief system. Thus, examining the work of scholars from these countries in particular will not accurately explain true Islam. However, this is what these islamophobes will do and want the public to do, because it simply supports their cause for exclusionary practices, prejudicial and racial profiling, and their own deeply held philosophical religious beliefs.

Oh it's not pure or true Islam, is it. First you tell us to talk to Muslims, then you say people in Muslim countries don't practice pure or true Islam. Are people in Muslim countries aware they don't practice pure Islam? Are scholars in these countries aware that they apparently cannot accurately explain true Islam?

I'm gonna write to Al Azhar and tell them there's a chick on DCUM who thinks they got their deen all wrong.

You know why people quote these rulings? 'Cause they are there. You don't like the fact that they are there? Then make them not exist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I agree with you in some ways. However, I do think it is a disservice to call people islamaphobes. You do agree that For a long time now, the extremists have tainted the Muslim religion into things that it may not totally represent. And I'm not just talking about ISIS. I'm talking about the treatment of women, the stonings, the fact that i had a patient last week who wouldn't talk unless her husband gave her permission to. I like to think I'm educated enough not to view all Muslims in a negative light, but you also have to understand why so many do.

Instead of finding people who say Muslims aren't all the negative things as they are depicted to be, you may have a better shot of finding examples of people who go against the stereotype. Not just scholarly articles or people talking.

The thing is, that woman's husband could bring you a dozen rulings from decreed sheikhs explaining, with full chain of evidence, that what his wife did was proper and correct.

I understand that. My point is that it is not islamaphobic to think that is so incredibly backwards that when a woman shows up in the ER with obvious pain, she couldn't tell me how bad her pain was without her husbands permission. It is not Isis you are fighting against with why people think Muslims are "bad" it's more like the examples that you see of how they treat women. And I don't think it makes me an islamaphobic to say I was very disturbed by the dynamic I saw between the two of them or that I think the treatment of women who've been raped is backwards and disgusting.

Oh please. Here's what happened. Either you or Muslima made a claim that Islam in America grows more by conversion than by immigration. People were skeptical and asked for evidence. You couldn't provide any but were annoyed that people kept asking. Whose fault is it that you say things you can't substantiate?

Anonymous wrote:OP, I agree with you in some ways. However, I do think it is a disservice to call people islamaphobes. You do agree that For a long time now, the extremists have tainted the Muslim religion into things that it may not totally represent. And I'm not just talking about ISIS. I'm talking about the treatment of women, the stonings, the fact that i had a patient last week who wouldn't talk unless her husband gave her permission to. I like to think I'm educated enough not to view all Muslims in a negative light, but you also have to understand why so many do.

Instead of finding people who say Muslims aren't all the negative things as they are depicted to be, you may have a better shot of finding examples of people who go against the stereotype. Not just scholarly articles or people talking.

The thing is, that woman's husband could bring you a dozen rulings from decreed sheikhs explaining, with full chain of evidence, that what his wife did was proper and correct.

Muslima is annoying. You need a new spokesperson.

Anonymous wrote:

My purpose in doing this is not to proselytize but simply to dispel the myths and expose the deception of islamophobes.

Thanks.

The only thing you exposed was your own ineptness in debating.

OP, I agree with you in some ways. However, I do think it is a disservice to call people islamaphobes. You do agree that For a long time now, the extremists have tainted the Muslim religion into things that it may not totally represent. And I'm not just talking about ISIS. I'm talking about the treatment of women, the stonings, the fact that i had a patient last week who wouldn't talk unless her husband gave her permission to. I like to think I'm educated enough not to view all Muslims in a negative light, but you also have to understand why so many do.

Instead of finding people who say Muslims aren't all the negative things as they are depicted to be, you may have a better shot of finding examples of people who go against the stereotype. Not just scholarly articles or people talking.

Anonymous wrote:

The Islamophobes engaged Muslims in a circular debate. They posed questions, Muslims answered the questions to the best of their ability and provided authoritative scholarly references, and their only rebuttal was simply that they found other sources that presented a much more harsh and unforgiving version of Islam. The islamophobes also enjoyed using the "cut and paste" method of explaining Quranic passages. When it was explained to them that passages from the Quran may not be read out of historical context, they made the claim that the Quran is, therefore, not timeless.

And were these sources less scholarly or less authoritative? What makes the sources you cited the only correct ones? If the world of Islamic scholarship contains "harsh and unforgiving" versions of Islam, whose problem is that? What makes your version correct and the "harsh and unforgiving" one wrong?

You're just throwing a hissy fit because people didn't look at you as rapturously as you expected. Learn to argue better.

What about all the other hate-filled threads on DCUM? Are you okay with them?

I'm getting sick of DCUM. Lots of nasty people of all stripes lately. Or maybe they've always been there and I'm just not into it anymore.

And you expect that you won't be (1) ignored or (2) engaged by the very same "islamophobes" from the other thread? Naive or just new to DCUM?

Hello All,

A 22 page thread titled, "Tell me about Islam" began as what appeared to be an intelligent and sober discourse on what Islam is truly about. A Muslim woman who called herself "Muslima" offered insight into her faith. Very quickly, a handful of islamophobes swept in on her to object to her explanation of Islamic ideology and principles and they began what amounted to the systematic vilification of an entire religion that is beloved to billions of people.

Since DCUM is predominantly anonymous, we have no idea who said exactly what and how many people said it. Nevertheless, disgraceful, offensive, and racist comments were communicated.

The particular posts were reported and Jeff contacted me. While he sympathized, he said the thread was extremely long and it would be a very arduous task for him to delete every single post that contained the racist comments. It would take him an entire afternoon. Upon reflection, I realized that perhaps it is indeed best such racist remarks are permanently recorded in that thread, because it provides the clear evidence how deceptive islamophobes inquire about Islam under the guise of intellectual curiosity, when, in fact, their motive is far more sinister.

It is best to learn about Islam from one who lives it day to day and practices it in good faith. When a topic is not clear, seek clarification from primarily the Quran itself because only the Quran is believed by Muslims to be the only word of God. It is true that many Muslims rely on the hadith, which are the actions and words of Prophet Muhammad, but even some of these may be unreliable because they are the purported words of the Prophet as remembered by his companions and others. Sometimes hadith provide valuable context to Quranic principles, however.

The Islamophobes engaged Muslims in a circular debate. They posed questions, Muslims answered the questions to the best of their ability and provided authoritative scholarly references, and their only rebuttal was simply that they found other sources that presented a much more harsh and unforgiving version of Islam. The islamophobes also enjoyed using the "cut and paste" method of explaining Quranic passages. When it was explained to them that passages from the Quran may not be read out of historical context, they made the claim that the Quran is, therefore, not timeless.

In all fairness, even Muslims have taken passages from the Quran out of context. ISIS justifies the beheading of its prisoners by misinterpreting the Quran. Some scholars, not all but some, particularly in Muslim countries, have also misinterpreted the Quran. Remember that Islam originated in Arabia and pre-Islamic Arabia was a hedonistic, uncivilized, and brutally corrupt place. Deeply rooted cultural beliefs and traditions permeated their thinking and even today, people still cling to these old traditions and views. As such, the Islam practiced by some people in Muslim countries is not necessarily pure Islam or true Islam. It is influenced by a deeply entrenched, patriarchal belief system. Thus, examining the work of scholars from these countries in particular will not accurately explain true Islam. However, this is what these islamophobes will do and want the public to do, because it simply supports their cause for exclusionary practices, prejudicial and racial profiling, and their own deeply held philosophical religious beliefs.

I will post youtube links of prominent Islamic scholars from the U.S and Canada, but a few from Muslim countries also, on various controversial topics. They are relatively short videos. Please take the time to view them and feel free to ask questions.

My purpose in doing this is not to proselytize but simply to dispel the myths and expose the deception of islamophobes.

Thanks.