OP, send the letter that the poster wrote. There is no way to know what actions she will take as a result of it. And it really doesn't matter. This letter is not about getting her to do something. It's about YOU setting boundaries and taking care of yourself.

Anonymous wrote:Let her go- you can't fix everyone (though I don't think I read that directly but it was implied by your dedication). You also should not be treated this was- so- whatever which sides weigh the most- just walk away.

OP here- you are correct that I had really hoped to connect her to resources to fix herself. I knew there was nothing I could really do but show compassion and encourage positive things in her. And Im very good at finding information. I now can see that in some sense she does not want help. And in some sense she does not want to get better because she has convinced herself she cant, or she cant get better because somehow she does not want to.

THIS IS WHY I DIDNT PURSUE BECOMING A THERAPIST despite many people encouraging me to do so. I was intuitively concerned I would be drained by people who did not actually want to get better.

Then again, maybe the professional distance helps with that. I dont know. In any case, I didnt become a therapist, and I was not trying to be one to her. But I did try to get her to see she had some choices. She is completely convinced she has NO choices. Oh well.

Anonymous wrote:So end = spend

Yes I got that right away !

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

PP, this letter idea is appealing to me. Ive sent her a letter in the past that she ignored (reaching out after she stopped making contact) or even acknowledged. But a letter would allow me to say what needs to be said without even dealing with talking to her directly anymore. And she could process it however she processes it, but in the end, the words would be true.

Exactly. A letter doesn't give her the opportunity to cut you off, talk over you, hang up on you, whatever. Obviously you don't want anything out of your relationship with her, as she sounds absolutely miserable. Kudos for hanging in as long as you did.

Send the note. Say what you have to say. The end.

So end your time with friends and family you enjoy and be there with her only if she seeks help. Stop enabling her to put off seeking help. GL!

OP here- yes, I think she was in fact using me as an excuse to put off help. I even found her a therapist to consult with for some of her specific problems. Did she ever reach out to that person? No. She claims she has been to therapists in the past, but they didnt help.

Maybe because she never went?

So end = spend

Anonymous wrote:The talking over me would be enough for me to drop her. I can't stand people who do that. Do they not understand how a normal conversation is supposed to go?

OP here- indeed that was a weird one. I chalked it up to cell phone delay initially. In person, though, she did it too, but more recently had stopped. I think she was feeling safe and relaxed and so that symptom went away. But now its back. It so weird, because its with EVERY sentence.

Its as if now that she is treating me badly and I have had it, the distance is allowing he to see VERY clearly ALL the bad signs exactly for what they are.

PP- you have encountered this before? I never have- she was the first!

Anonymous wrote:

PP, this letter idea is appealing to me. Ive sent her a letter in the past that she ignored (reaching out after she stopped making contact) or even acknowledged. But a letter would allow me to say what needs to be said without even dealing with talking to her directly anymore. And she could process it however she processes it, but in the end, the words would be true.

Exactly. A letter doesn't give her the opportunity to cut you off, talk over you, hang up on you, whatever. Obviously you don't want anything out of your relationship with her, as she sounds absolutely miserable. Kudos for hanging in as long as you did.

Send the note. Say what you have to say. The end.

So end your time with friends and family you enjoy and be there with her only if she seeks help. Stop enabling her to put off seeking help. GL!

Let her go- you can't fix everyone (though I don't think I read that directly but it was implied by your dedication). You also should not be treated this was- so- whatever which sides weigh the most- just walk away.

The talking over me would be enough for me to drop her. I can't stand people who do that. Do they not understand how a normal conversation is supposed to go?

Anonymous wrote:Dear Larla,
Friendships come and go and I feel that is happening with us these days. I am genuinely concerned for you and I think seeing a counselor may help you with sorting through some of your feelings. If you won't do it for you, do it for Johnny who needs his mom to be as healthy as she can be, because there is no one else to care for him.

You are absolutely correct that no one knows exactly what you have been through or how you feel. Everyone has rough times in life, but it is not a contest; what is rough to you is the worst for you and what is rough to someone else is the worst for them. There is no winner. I'm sorry things have been so rough for you as a single mom by choice. I honestly don't know what I would do, but I wish you the best.

Take care,
Marla

OP here. THat is pretty darn good. I was just thinking that my operative question is:

Will indicating to her that I can see she needs help expedite or delay her internal process of making the decision to seek that help?

I had to give my husband an ultimatum before he would acknowledge the seriousness of what he was doing. I said seek treatment and I will stand by you.

I am not looking to save this relationship. I dont care what she thinks of me. There is only thing that actually matters here, and that is that there is an 8 year old boy looking at a terrible life if his mom loses it. And as tough as she is in some ways (she went through some ER experiences recently that were pretty challenging) everyone has a breaking point.

All that matters to me is can her breaking point be prevented, and if so, how can I best help that?

Im concerned that doing or saying ANYthing could set her back. But on the other hand, sending a responsible message such as "I am really seeing signs of a nervous breakdown, or depression. For Johnny's sake, please seek help." can't really be wrong.

PP, this letter idea is appealing to me. Ive sent her a letter in the past that she ignored (reaching out after she stopped making contact) or even acknowledged. But a letter would allow me to say what needs to be said without even dealing with talking to her directly anymore. And she could process it however she processes it, but in the end, the words would be true.

Dear Larla,
Friendships come and go and I feel that is happening with us these days. I am genuinely concerned for you and I think seeing a counselor may help you with sorting through some of your feelings. If you won't do it for you, do it for Johnny who needs his mom to be as healthy as she can be, because there is no one else to care for him.

You are absolutely correct that no one knows exactly what you have been through or how you feel. Everyone has rough times in life, but it is not a contest; what is rough to you is the worst for you and what is rough to someone else is the worst for them. There is no winner. I'm sorry things have been so rough for you as a single mom by choice. I honestly don't know what I would do, but I wish you the best.

Take care,
Marla

Anonymous wrote:Let the friendship fade away. You are busy with family and work responsibilities.

Well, if she doesnt make contact, that would be what happens naturally. I definitely wont be reaching out to her because of how she has treated me in the past and more recently again. Its a pushback- I get that. Things are at crisis state for her. Either she cracks or she gets help. I am genuinely worried for her. However, as you said, I do have family and work responsibiltiies of a particularly serious nature of my own.

What a mess. I really think if she could get real coginitive therapy and maybe some medication for anxiety and depression, she could turn her life around. My husband went off the deep end with depression, and he recovered with treatment. So I know its at least possible.

MarleySkye840 wrote:PP, that is extremely passive aggressive. Be an adult and tell her how you feel.

She is clearly a difficult person. Maybe just say to her that other people have issues in life and her life isn't the worst case scenario. A little tough love, but love nonetheless. If she really needs a reality check, give it to her, but don't become a bitch in the process. If she really has only one friend, be there for her.

OP here. Well, she has started to direct her general ire at me, which makes communicating with her genuinely impossible. The other day she hung up on me because I told her I was on the way out the door to work. I had wanted to call her from my cell on the way there, eventhough she was only calling to complain, this time about me.

She gets very defensive when I mention the fact that other people have problems, which I always do only as a comparison- ie "I know someone who went through X" or "I went through X".

Tough love is not really an option because she dug her heels in good and proper that noone can understand how bad she has it unless they have the IDENTICAL experience. Which is of course just about impossible.

She resists any attempts to draw parallels between her and anyone else. She is a single mom, had her kid on her own. She tried meeting with a choice moms group, but they were all too wealthy for her. She finds their wealthiness offensive. She met with a single parents group, but they were all divorcee's, so then they dont understand her because she has never been married.

She's walled up good and proper.

And now she is starting to reject my friendship. However, she probably will eventually make contact, and I need to know waht to say.

I have been nothing but super super kind and gentle with her because I can see she has genuine problems. And she is all alone. But now she is beginning to push back- which is what it is. But she WILL make contact. Eventually.

I really did make an attempt to help her because she was so alone. I never expected I would get anything out of the relationship per se- I had no expectations. Except I didnt expect her to start lashing out at me.

Let the friendship fade away. You are busy with family and work responsibilities.

Here are just a few characterisitics/patterns which will be relevant to deciding how to go about this. This is a bit long. Its important to have enough detail in case you have dealt with exactly this personality profile and hopefully you have a good idea on what to do.

Won't take any suggestions, small or big, and refuses to consider anyone else's point of view.
Rejects expressions of empathy on any matter that bothers her, instead emphasizing how hard whatever it is is on her.
Talks over you while you are talking (pauses as if there is space for you to talk then resumes talking as soon as you try to talk making actual exchange of ideas impossible)
Constantly emphasizing how others have it better than she does. And I mean everyone and I mean constantly.
Ascribes sinister motivations to casual dialog. A mom at the pool whom she knows casually asked where she is going for vacation (She may have just have asked IF she was going on vacation). Friend went on and on an on to me on the phone about this exchange, saying that not everyone can afford vacation, what kind of person asks a nosy question like that, is she just trying to make someone feel bad that they cant afford a vacation, etc etc. I attempt to ameliorate gy saying She was probably just making conversation. That idea is completely rejected.
Rejects evidence that her interpretation might not be the full story. Rewrites past events to suit a narrative that she was mistreated, and refuses concrete evidence to the contrary (ie "You never called" while her cell phone shows I did numerous times, but doesnt change her POV that I never called). This is really disturbing.
Has no friends at all besides me. Not one. This is of course very disturbing now.

The above are some of the redder flags, in particular the refusal to rethink her interpretations. I honestly think she cannot as much as she will not. Its almost the same thing. And I think she is on the verge of a nervous breakdown, as she has an ailing mother and (she says) is being rejected by all of her sibilings for reasons (she says) that she has no idea of. (This is of course POSSIBLE, but now I am starting to have doubts).

She is not going to be interested in my feelings. So there is no point in telling them to her.
She needs serious therapy and help, but she will not do it, and me or anyone telling her won't tip the scales.
She is a single mom with no connections and resources of family or friends, and I am genuinely worried for her 8 year old son if she loses it.

Do I: let her call when she is ready and tell her compassionately that I am worried and I think she needs help?
OR do I: let her call but just be busy and unable to get together should she want to?

Im not one to be passive so option B just isnt my thing. This is what my husband and a few others have suggested.

Im voting more for the first option. It just seems the right thing to do. But I do not believe it will be effective. She will likely just have another reason to think I dont understand, etc.