Anonymous
08/18/2014 09:39
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
OP, I would show him your post. If he gets angry, so what. You guys need to talk about this. It's not normal, and it sounds lonely. Was he like this before the baby? Ask him flat-out if he's really happy. The answer may be "no," so be prepared for the heart-thump you will feel when he says it.
He's into gardening, so explain to him that your marriage us like a garden. It needs watering and attention. Sounds like some counseling is in order. Ask him to go with you a set number of times; if he's so rigid, then having a known quantity of sessions may help him agree to go. You may like to find the therapist first or find 2-3 candidates and pick the final one together with your husband, so he feels some ownership of it.
Good luck. Please keep us posted.
He's into gardening, so explain to him that your marriage us like a garden. It needs watering and attention. Sounds like some counseling is in order. Ask him to go with you a set number of times; if he's so rigid, then having a known quantity of sessions may help him agree to go. You may like to find the therapist first or find 2-3 candidates and pick the final one together with your husband, so he feels some ownership of it.
Good luck. Please keep us posted.
Anonymous
08/18/2014 09:35
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
Anonymous wrote:Is he OCD, or anxious, or gay? His constant cleaning with podcasts seems like a way to hide from you - it doesn't seem like it's really about the cleaning. Does he have any leisure activities he enjoys that you could join him in? I really really think you guys should do couples coumseling. Good luck!
When I was reading the OPs first post this was the first thing that popped into my head. Then when I read her follow up and his lack of interest in sex, it cemented my initial thoughts.
This guy is clearly avoiding any sort of relationship with the OP, sexual and emotional. He wants the family and the perfect house, but wants nothing to do with the relationship. I don't think this will be ending well.
Anonymous
08/18/2014 09:27
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
"He is creating work and projects for himself to avoid her, the podcasts are also pure avoidance. He's unhappy with something"
Right - this is not about his housework, its about your connection with each other. Can you tell him that, and ask him to be truthful as to what's going on? He's either unhappy about something and not expressing it, or he's not able to develop true emotional intimacy with someone due to either something in his past or lack of skills.
Right - this is not about his housework, its about your connection with each other. Can you tell him that, and ask him to be truthful as to what's going on? He's either unhappy about something and not expressing it, or he's not able to develop true emotional intimacy with someone due to either something in his past or lack of skills.
Anonymous
08/18/2014 09:24
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
It definitely sounds like some kind of OCD/autism spectrum stuff.
I'd approach him from the "you seem very stressed and I don't think that's healthy, and I want to help you. Let's get some therapy."
Basically, just try to broach the issue in a non-threatening, nonjudgmental way and be persistent. Don't give up because he doesn't want it.
If all else fails, you could try al-alon. It might seem silly, but they are very good at helping people with loved ones who have addiction.
Also, rejecting a spouse's sexual advances 9/10 times is mean.
I'd approach him from the "you seem very stressed and I don't think that's healthy, and I want to help you. Let's get some therapy."
Basically, just try to broach the issue in a non-threatening, nonjudgmental way and be persistent. Don't give up because he doesn't want it.
If all else fails, you could try al-alon. It might seem silly, but they are very good at helping people with loved ones who have addiction.
Also, rejecting a spouse's sexual advances 9/10 times is mean.
Anonymous
08/18/2014 09:18
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
Anonymous wrote:Is he OCD, or anxious, or gay? His constant cleaning with podcasts seems like a way to hide from you - it doesn't seem like it's really about the cleaning. Does he have any leisure activities he enjoys that you could join him in? I really really think you guys should do couples coumseling. Good luck!
I wondered this too. He is trying to avoid connecting with you, literally and figuratively. Has it always been this way, or is this a marked change? How long were you together before you got married and what was your relationship like? Also - how have you addressed this with him in the past? If he explodes in anger when you tell him you are lonely and sad and miss him then that's a real problem that can't be swept under the rug. And it's just not fair because you literally have no voice in this relationship. Perhaps he shows his love in different ways than you do but that doesn't mean you must accept no sex, no intimacy, no conversation simply because he keeps your household running and works hard - that's a trap.
OP, was your relationship every emotionally close and sexual?
Anonymous
08/18/2014 09:12
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
Anonymous wrote:Is he OCD, or anxious, or gay? His constant cleaning with podcasts seems like a way to hide from you - it doesn't seem like it's really about the cleaning. Does he have any leisure activities he enjoys that you could join him in? I really really think you guys should do couples coumseling. Good luck!
OP here - OCD: a little, anxious: yes, and gay: I don't think so. But yes, I think the podcasts are a way to shut me out, partially. (I do acknowledge they are entertaining, and he's been a radio guy for years. He was married about 5 years before I met him, for 15 years, and he similarly disappeared into listening to particular radio personalities back then. Now it's podcasts. So, he does enjoy them for their own sake, but clearly he's choosing them over having any sort of interaction with me. This is not what life was like when we were dating or even living together. It's all since the baby.)
We both love biking and it's something we used to do together. Now he prefers to do it on his own. He is faster than me and now prefers on-road biking, where we used to trail ride a lot. So I go out biking with the baby and give him time to himself. Very occasionally he will ride with us - he did for about 20 minutes this weekend.
I'd love to go to couples counseling, which we have tried before with pretty meh results...now he says we don't have time. He feels stressed to the max and it would be just one more thing to try to arrange, especially because it would have to be during hours when the baby is awake, so we'd either lose time with him or have to take time off work. Personally, I feel like it's worth it -- losing 2 hours a week with the baby will be less detrimental to him in the long run than his parents splitting up. But I can't convince him.
Anonymous
08/18/2014 09:09
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
Anonymous wrote:Kind of a gender role reversal, but this dynamic is not at all uncommon with the woman neglecting her husband due to all of the housework that "has" to be done.
Good luck breaking that cycle.
This isn't at all similar to that. He is creating work and projects for himself to avoid her, the podcasts are also pure avoidance. He's unhappy with something, or has energy to burn...but he is not driven by a sense of responsibility to the household here. What a strange dynamic. OP, he may take great care of the house and his job and child but he's not taking good care of his marriage. That is a 100% legit way for you to feel. What if you scheduled a family therapy session and had a chance to say this all to him in front of a counselor? Could you get him there, and would it help him express what's truly going on?
Anonymous
08/18/2014 09:09
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's one I don't see on DCUM very much -- my husband is SO devoted to household cleaning, organizing, gardening, etc. that we spend absolutely no time together, either as a couple or with our toddler. I feel like a complete heel for complaining, and he jumps on me with anger and exasperation when I bring up how I want to spend time together, saying, "WOMEN! See? Look how hard I work and NOTHING IS EVER ENOUGH!"
He spends a lot of time keeping up a large organic garden, which he started so the baby would have organic food, which he then cooked and pureed himself. When I was busy nursing and pumping milk for our preemie and later infant, he took 95% responsibility for cleaning bottles and pump parts. The more I took care of the baby, the more he stepped up to do household chores, which previously were 50/50. Ideal situation, right? How could I dare complain?
But when he is doing laundry, cleaning, cooking, or basically doing anything except being in front of the TV or eating with our toddler (the one time when we can try to have a conversation), he has headphones on, listening to podcasts. We can't just be in a room together and have a conversation, because the headphones are always on. If I try to say something, he gets annoyed, has to pause his podcast, take off his headphones, and glares at me. It's not as simple as having me take back some of the tasks he's doing, as he has developed "systems" around doing them and wants to get them done himself, plus he says he looks forward to listening to his podcasts. There are some things he would be happy for me to do more of, like laundry, but taking more work off his plate doesn't get him to spend more time with me -- if he's not inside doing chores, he's out in the garden until the sun is all the way down.
I am so lonely and depressed. He's sometimes frustrated with me because he comes inside from hours of gardening after the baby is asleep and I'm sitting on the couch reading DCUM. And I'd be pissed, too, working so much and seeing my wife just hanging out on her phone. It's just SO FUCKING LONELY. At least on Facebook or DCUM there's an approximation of contact with other human beings. I know I would feel better if I was doing more myself. I am just stuck deep in this mire of loneliness and depression. I feel like I am completely trapped in my house, in my life, and the person who is supposed to be my companion wants nothing to do with me. We live out in the exurbs, not close to a friend that I could just pop out for 30 minutes to see...it would be a 30 minute drive to get anywhere, so I feel so isolated and alone. I find myself turning to my toddler for affection and company, which is not a healthy dynamic. I just don't know what to do. We've been married a really short time (pregnant on honeymoon) and it feels insane to say I feel like my marriage is falling apart because my husband is TOO good around the house.
Last night, he was out in the yard for a long time after dark, and I couldn't figure out what on earth he was doing out there. When I got to put the baby in the car this morning to go to work, I found that he had cleaned the whole car, top to bottom, inside. It had been a disaster and it now looks great. And I just burst into tears. I would so much rather have had a half hour talking to my husband than have a clean car. Or we could have cleaned it together while actually talking about something. But he really has no interest whatsoever in connecting with me, and the more he does without me, the worse it feels.
I just don't know what to do.
DH here - This may not apply to your husband since he seems a little more domestic than I am. But I get withdrawn from my wife if we aren't having enough sex. How is the sex life? Is he initiating and you are rejecting?
OP here. Exactly the opposite. 9 times out of 10, I initiate and he rejects. The only exception is that he stays up much later than I do (like, 'till after midnight when the baby is up at 5) and occasionally he comes to bed and gets an erection. Usually I'm game to wake up and do something to take care of him (rarely mutual, usually me giving) but this Friday night I was simply too completely exhausted, and asked for a rain check for the next day while the baby was napping. But then Saturday's naps came and went and he was in the garden both times, same on Sunday. I have literally never said no to sex during the day. I do hesitate to initiate now because, like I said, 9 times out of 10 it's a no, and it's completely demoralizing.
Does he , by chance , have any kind of issues re the internet? Such as addictions to porn, meeting /chatting with women?
Anonymous
08/18/2014 08:57
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
Kind of a gender role reversal, but this dynamic is not at all uncommon with the woman neglecting her husband due to all of the housework that "has" to be done.
Good luck breaking that cycle.
Good luck breaking that cycle.
Anonymous
08/18/2014 08:50
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
Is he OCD, or anxious, or gay? His constant cleaning with podcasts seems like a way to hide from you - it doesn't seem like it's really about the cleaning. Does he have any leisure activities he enjoys that you could join him in? I really really think you guys should do couples coumseling. Good luck!
Anonymous
08/18/2014 08:41
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
Anonymous wrote:Oh OP, I'm so sorry. This sounds so difficult. Any chance you could show him your post? It expresses how you're feeling so well.
Thanks for the sympathy. I guess I could try, but I fear he'd just blow up with anger, which he does when I bring this up. And I sort of understand -- he's overworked at work, he's overworking himself at home, he plays with our toddler, etc etc etc, and I'm going to pile on criticism? It just feels like he's become a home workaholic. Nothing is left for me at all. And pretty much nothing is left for me and our child together. He does love spending time with the baby when I am taking a shower or running an errand or otherwise unavailable. He even lets me sleep late on Saturdays after I nurse the baby in the AM - he enjoys their mornings alone together. He just doesn't enjoy or seek out any time for the 3 of us.
What I really want to say is, "Who cares if the house is spotless and the floors are cleaned and there are rows of zucchinis in the garden if we're getting a divorced and the baby won't be able to grow up in this house, anyway? Don't we need to tend our marriage more urgently than a garden? Organic vegetables aren't going to keep our kid safe and attached in an intact family!" Auuuuggggghhhh.
Anonymous
08/18/2014 08:35
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Here's one I don't see on DCUM very much -- my husband is SO devoted to household cleaning, organizing, gardening, etc. that we spend absolutely no time together, either as a couple or with our toddler. I feel like a complete heel for complaining, and he jumps on me with anger and exasperation when I bring up how I want to spend time together, saying, "WOMEN! See? Look how hard I work and NOTHING IS EVER ENOUGH!"
He spends a lot of time keeping up a large organic garden, which he started so the baby would have organic food, which he then cooked and pureed himself. When I was busy nursing and pumping milk for our preemie and later infant, he took 95% responsibility for cleaning bottles and pump parts. The more I took care of the baby, the more he stepped up to do household chores, which previously were 50/50. Ideal situation, right? How could I dare complain?
But when he is doing laundry, cleaning, cooking, or basically doing anything except being in front of the TV or eating with our toddler (the one time when we can try to have a conversation), he has headphones on, listening to podcasts. We can't just be in a room together and have a conversation, because the headphones are always on. If I try to say something, he gets annoyed, has to pause his podcast, take off his headphones, and glares at me. It's not as simple as having me take back some of the tasks he's doing, as he has developed "systems" around doing them and wants to get them done himself, plus he says he looks forward to listening to his podcasts. There are some things he would be happy for me to do more of, like laundry, but taking more work off his plate doesn't get him to spend more time with me -- if he's not inside doing chores, he's out in the garden until the sun is all the way down.
I am so lonely and depressed. He's sometimes frustrated with me because he comes inside from hours of gardening after the baby is asleep and I'm sitting on the couch reading DCUM. And I'd be pissed, too, working so much and seeing my wife just hanging out on her phone. It's just SO FUCKING LONELY. At least on Facebook or DCUM there's an approximation of contact with other human beings. I know I would feel better if I was doing more myself. I am just stuck deep in this mire of loneliness and depression. I feel like I am completely trapped in my house, in my life, and the person who is supposed to be my companion wants nothing to do with me. We live out in the exurbs, not close to a friend that I could just pop out for 30 minutes to see...it would be a 30 minute drive to get anywhere, so I feel so isolated and alone. I find myself turning to my toddler for affection and company, which is not a healthy dynamic. I just don't know what to do. We've been married a really short time (pregnant on honeymoon) and it feels insane to say I feel like my marriage is falling apart because my husband is TOO good around the house.
Last night, he was out in the yard for a long time after dark, and I couldn't figure out what on earth he was doing out there. When I got to put the baby in the car this morning to go to work, I found that he had cleaned the whole car, top to bottom, inside. It had been a disaster and it now looks great. And I just burst into tears. I would so much rather have had a half hour talking to my husband than have a clean car. Or we could have cleaned it together while actually talking about something. But he really has no interest whatsoever in connecting with me, and the more he does without me, the worse it feels.
I just don't know what to do.
DH here - This may not apply to your husband since he seems a little more domestic than I am. But I get withdrawn from my wife if we aren't having enough sex. How is the sex life? Is he initiating and you are rejecting?
OP here. Exactly the opposite. 9 times out of 10, I initiate and he rejects. The only exception is that he stays up much later than I do (like, 'till after midnight when the baby is up at 5) and occasionally he comes to bed and gets an erection. Usually I'm game to wake up and do something to take care of him (rarely mutual, usually me giving) but this Friday night I was simply too completely exhausted, and asked for a rain check for the next day while the baby was napping. But then Saturday's naps came and went and he was in the garden both times, same on Sunday. I have literally never said no to sex during the day. I do hesitate to initiate now because, like I said, 9 times out of 10 it's a no, and it's completely demoralizing.
Anonymous
08/18/2014 08:32
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
Oh OP, I'm so sorry. This sounds so difficult. Any chance you could show him your post? It expresses how you're feeling so well.
Anonymous
08/18/2014 08:30
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
Anonymous wrote:Here's one I don't see on DCUM very much -- my husband is SO devoted to household cleaning, organizing, gardening, etc. that we spend absolutely no time together, either as a couple or with our toddler. I feel like a complete heel for complaining, and he jumps on me with anger and exasperation when I bring up how I want to spend time together, saying, "WOMEN! See? Look how hard I work and NOTHING IS EVER ENOUGH!"
He spends a lot of time keeping up a large organic garden, which he started so the baby would have organic food, which he then cooked and pureed himself. When I was busy nursing and pumping milk for our preemie and later infant, he took 95% responsibility for cleaning bottles and pump parts. The more I took care of the baby, the more he stepped up to do household chores, which previously were 50/50. Ideal situation, right? How could I dare complain?
But when he is doing laundry, cleaning, cooking, or basically doing anything except being in front of the TV or eating with our toddler (the one time when we can try to have a conversation), he has headphones on, listening to podcasts. We can't just be in a room together and have a conversation, because the headphones are always on. If I try to say something, he gets annoyed, has to pause his podcast, take off his headphones, and glares at me. It's not as simple as having me take back some of the tasks he's doing, as he has developed "systems" around doing them and wants to get them done himself, plus he says he looks forward to listening to his podcasts. There are some things he would be happy for me to do more of, like laundry, but taking more work off his plate doesn't get him to spend more time with me -- if he's not inside doing chores, he's out in the garden until the sun is all the way down.
I am so lonely and depressed. He's sometimes frustrated with me because he comes inside from hours of gardening after the baby is asleep and I'm sitting on the couch reading DCUM. And I'd be pissed, too, working so much and seeing my wife just hanging out on her phone. It's just SO FUCKING LONELY. At least on Facebook or DCUM there's an approximation of contact with other human beings. I know I would feel better if I was doing more myself. I am just stuck deep in this mire of loneliness and depression. I feel like I am completely trapped in my house, in my life, and the person who is supposed to be my companion wants nothing to do with me. We live out in the exurbs, not close to a friend that I could just pop out for 30 minutes to see...it would be a 30 minute drive to get anywhere, so I feel so isolated and alone. I find myself turning to my toddler for affection and company, which is not a healthy dynamic. I just don't know what to do. We've been married a really short time (pregnant on honeymoon) and it feels insane to say I feel like my marriage is falling apart because my husband is TOO good around the house.
Last night, he was out in the yard for a long time after dark, and I couldn't figure out what on earth he was doing out there. When I got to put the baby in the car this morning to go to work, I found that he had cleaned the whole car, top to bottom, inside. It had been a disaster and it now looks great. And I just burst into tears. I would so much rather have had a half hour talking to my husband than have a clean car. Or we could have cleaned it together while actually talking about something. But he really has no interest whatsoever in connecting with me, and the more he does without me, the worse it feels.
I just don't know what to do.
DH here - This may not apply to your husband since he seems a little more domestic than I am. But I get withdrawn from my wife if we aren't having enough sex. How is the sex life? Is he initiating and you are rejecting?
Anonymous
08/18/2014 08:25
Subject: Desperately lonely with my excellent house-husband
Here's one I don't see on DCUM very much -- my husband is SO devoted to household cleaning, organizing, gardening, etc. that we spend absolutely no time together, either as a couple or with our toddler. I feel like a complete heel for complaining, and he jumps on me with anger and exasperation when I bring up how I want to spend time together, saying, "WOMEN! See? Look how hard I work and NOTHING IS EVER ENOUGH!"
He spends a lot of time keeping up a large organic garden, which he started so the baby would have organic food, which he then cooked and pureed himself. When I was busy nursing and pumping milk for our preemie and later infant, he took 95% responsibility for cleaning bottles and pump parts. The more I took care of the baby, the more he stepped up to do household chores, which previously were 50/50. Ideal situation, right? How could I dare complain?
But when he is doing laundry, cleaning, cooking, or basically doing anything except being in front of the TV or eating with our toddler (the one time when we can try to have a conversation), he has headphones on, listening to podcasts. We can't just be in a room together and have a conversation, because the headphones are always on. If I try to say something, he gets annoyed, has to pause his podcast, take off his headphones, and glares at me. It's not as simple as having me take back some of the tasks he's doing, as he has developed "systems" around doing them and wants to get them done himself, plus he says he looks forward to listening to his podcasts. There are some things he would be happy for me to do more of, like laundry, but taking more work off his plate doesn't get him to spend more time with me -- if he's not inside doing chores, he's out in the garden until the sun is all the way down.
I am so lonely and depressed. He's sometimes frustrated with me because he comes inside from hours of gardening after the baby is asleep and I'm sitting on the couch reading DCUM. And I'd be pissed, too, working so much and seeing my wife just hanging out on her phone. It's just SO FUCKING LONELY. At least on Facebook or DCUM there's an approximation of contact with other human beings. I know I would feel better if I was doing more myself. I am just stuck deep in this mire of loneliness and depression. I feel like I am completely trapped in my house, in my life, and the person who is supposed to be my companion wants nothing to do with me. We live out in the exurbs, not close to a friend that I could just pop out for 30 minutes to see...it would be a 30 minute drive to get anywhere, so I feel so isolated and alone. I find myself turning to my toddler for affection and company, which is not a healthy dynamic. I just don't know what to do. We've been married a really short time (pregnant on honeymoon) and it feels insane to say I feel like my marriage is falling apart because my husband is TOO good around the house.
Last night, he was out in the yard for a long time after dark, and I couldn't figure out what on earth he was doing out there. When I got to put the baby in the car this morning to go to work, I found that he had cleaned the whole car, top to bottom, inside. It had been a disaster and it now looks great. And I just burst into tears. I would so much rather have had a half hour talking to my husband than have a clean car. Or we could have cleaned it together while actually talking about something. But he really has no interest whatsoever in connecting with me, and the more he does without me, the worse it feels.
I just don't know what to do.
He spends a lot of time keeping up a large organic garden, which he started so the baby would have organic food, which he then cooked and pureed himself. When I was busy nursing and pumping milk for our preemie and later infant, he took 95% responsibility for cleaning bottles and pump parts. The more I took care of the baby, the more he stepped up to do household chores, which previously were 50/50. Ideal situation, right? How could I dare complain?
But when he is doing laundry, cleaning, cooking, or basically doing anything except being in front of the TV or eating with our toddler (the one time when we can try to have a conversation), he has headphones on, listening to podcasts. We can't just be in a room together and have a conversation, because the headphones are always on. If I try to say something, he gets annoyed, has to pause his podcast, take off his headphones, and glares at me. It's not as simple as having me take back some of the tasks he's doing, as he has developed "systems" around doing them and wants to get them done himself, plus he says he looks forward to listening to his podcasts. There are some things he would be happy for me to do more of, like laundry, but taking more work off his plate doesn't get him to spend more time with me -- if he's not inside doing chores, he's out in the garden until the sun is all the way down.
I am so lonely and depressed. He's sometimes frustrated with me because he comes inside from hours of gardening after the baby is asleep and I'm sitting on the couch reading DCUM. And I'd be pissed, too, working so much and seeing my wife just hanging out on her phone. It's just SO FUCKING LONELY. At least on Facebook or DCUM there's an approximation of contact with other human beings. I know I would feel better if I was doing more myself. I am just stuck deep in this mire of loneliness and depression. I feel like I am completely trapped in my house, in my life, and the person who is supposed to be my companion wants nothing to do with me. We live out in the exurbs, not close to a friend that I could just pop out for 30 minutes to see...it would be a 30 minute drive to get anywhere, so I feel so isolated and alone. I find myself turning to my toddler for affection and company, which is not a healthy dynamic. I just don't know what to do. We've been married a really short time (pregnant on honeymoon) and it feels insane to say I feel like my marriage is falling apart because my husband is TOO good around the house.
Last night, he was out in the yard for a long time after dark, and I couldn't figure out what on earth he was doing out there. When I got to put the baby in the car this morning to go to work, I found that he had cleaned the whole car, top to bottom, inside. It had been a disaster and it now looks great. And I just burst into tears. I would so much rather have had a half hour talking to my husband than have a clean car. Or we could have cleaned it together while actually talking about something. But he really has no interest whatsoever in connecting with me, and the more he does without me, the worse it feels.
I just don't know what to do.