Anonymous
08/07/2014 06:22
Subject: An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
Anonymous wrote:Have you bribed him? Like buy him a toy and bring it home and show it to him and say "if you stay in bed quietly you get this when you wake up".
Desperate times call for desperate measures. Do it for 4 days and by then he'll be well rested.
I would try this, only more of a sticker chart version since he's four. I'd say he can have something special after 5 days or a week of going to bed without a problem. That will help create the new habit.
Anonymous
08/06/2014 23:00
Subject: An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
Oh he is just plain ol overtired. Try to take a nap with him during the day tomorrow to try to get him back on track. Even if it means a slightly later bedtime. Mthey need the sleep to feel better. Then you can get back into a routine. The car ride is fine. If it works for you keep it up.
Anonymous
08/06/2014 22:58
Subject: An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
There's good advice on the thread OP. Don't get distracted and worry about explaining yourself to any particular posters whom you may view as critical. Focus on the helpful. You must be exhausted.
MommaRN
08/06/2014 22:50
Subject: An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
Anonymous wrote:What are the consequences for his violence? It sounds as if he got rewarded for his violence by getting a car ride. I know you don't mean it that way, but he likely sees it that way.
What do you do when he throws a tantrum?
I'd start first by putting him in his room like you said. Tell him he's not allowed to hit or hurt, and if he does, then he gets consequences of "X." Let him know what it will be. If he starts acting badly, remind him of the consequence. I like 1, 2, 3 Magic. If I get to three, you get consequences. And impose them. Consistently.
Pick something that bugs him. Time out in his room with no one there. Time out in the kitchen. Loss of a toy the next day. Loss of TV.
The other thing I'd consider is whether he's getting his four year molars? He might be in low-grade pain and it's enough to impact behavior. Or other illness, like ear infection.
And one more thing, what kind of TV does he watch, if any? Is he seeing anything violent, including cartoons? Scooby Doo would rile up my son at 4.
Four year old molars? LOL, which are these? The second primary molars erupt at about 2 years (average) and then no more until roughly 6 years old. Ask your dentist
Anonymous
08/06/2014 22:44
Subject: An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
This is the OP. He is now asleep. Thanks for the suggestions. I will say I doubt the car ride was viewed as a reward. Mom drove and he wanted dad. During the ride he repeatedly asked to go home before finally sleeping.
Not sure if giving him a consequence for hitting as suggested will help. If I take away the tv for tomorrow and I tell him at 8pm I think it would just escalate the bedtime. I don't know if there is a true consequence for the violence that won't also disrupt the attempt to get him to sleep. Also I retread the 123 magic chapter on bedtime and there is no counting at bedtime. The method is what we attempted to do which is no talking and no emotion return child to bed. The book claims the record was 17 times that a parent had to bring the kid back to bed. I lost count at 8:30 around 25 departures and it went on for another hour and a half.
Not sure if giving him a consequence for hitting as suggested will help. If I take away the tv for tomorrow and I tell him at 8pm I think it would just escalate the bedtime. I don't know if there is a true consequence for the violence that won't also disrupt the attempt to get him to sleep. Also I retread the 123 magic chapter on bedtime and there is no counting at bedtime. The method is what we attempted to do which is no talking and no emotion return child to bed. The book claims the record was 17 times that a parent had to bring the kid back to bed. I lost count at 8:30 around 25 departures and it went on for another hour and a half.
Anonymous
08/06/2014 22:35
Subject: An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
Anonymous wrote:Have you tried staying in the room with him until he falls asleep? If he's so tired (and I agree, he sounds overtired and try earlier bedtime), it won't take long. My DH stays in the room with my 3 YO (almost 4) (he just surfs the web on his phone) until he falls asleep...usually it's only 5 minutes.
This is my thought too. I'd guess the freaking out is from being overtired, and I'd just do what I could to get him to sleep. If leaving the room is a trigger, then just stay in the room with him until he sleeps. Once he catches up on sleep you can transition out of that, but I'd use it for now.
Anonymous
08/06/2014 22:29
Subject: An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
Car rides were the only thing that would calm my 3 yr old down. It took at 10 min of driving and then he would start to talk and tell me what the issue was. The quiet dark of the moving car was the only thing that would help him self regulate. It was not a reward. It was what he needed in order to help soothe himself. It lasted about 6 months. Then he was able to talk to me without the car ride.
Anonymous
08/06/2014 22:26
Subject: Re:An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
I have the sweetest DS, except when is is overtired like this. He turns into a monster if too tired. I suggest getting him to sleep however necessary before working on the routing of him falling asleep. A few good nights of sleep and he will be a different child who you can reason with. My friend suggested melatonin for a few days until I could get him to fall asleep. I was hesitant but it worked like a charm.
Anonymous
08/06/2014 22:22
Subject: An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
Anonymous wrote:What are the consequences for his violence? It sounds as if he got rewarded for his violence by getting a car ride. I know you don't mean it that way, but he likely sees it that way.
This is idiotic. Down, behaviorists! I'll give you a pellet if you stop with the terrible advice!
Anonymous
08/06/2014 22:17
Subject: An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
What are the consequences for his violence? It sounds as if he got rewarded for his violence by getting a car ride. I know you don't mean it that way, but he likely sees it that way.
What do you do when he throws a tantrum?
I'd start first by putting him in his room like you said. Tell him he's not allowed to hit or hurt, and if he does, then he gets consequences of "X." Let him know what it will be. If he starts acting badly, remind him of the consequence. I like 1, 2, 3 Magic. If I get to three, you get consequences. And impose them. Consistently.
Pick something that bugs him. Time out in his room with no one there. Time out in the kitchen. Loss of a toy the next day. Loss of TV.
The other thing I'd consider is whether he's getting his four year molars? He might be in low-grade pain and it's enough to impact behavior. Or other illness, like ear infection.
And one more thing, what kind of TV does he watch, if any? Is he seeing anything violent, including cartoons? Scooby Doo would rile up my son at 4.
What do you do when he throws a tantrum?
I'd start first by putting him in his room like you said. Tell him he's not allowed to hit or hurt, and if he does, then he gets consequences of "X." Let him know what it will be. If he starts acting badly, remind him of the consequence. I like 1, 2, 3 Magic. If I get to three, you get consequences. And impose them. Consistently.
Pick something that bugs him. Time out in his room with no one there. Time out in the kitchen. Loss of a toy the next day. Loss of TV.
The other thing I'd consider is whether he's getting his four year molars? He might be in low-grade pain and it's enough to impact behavior. Or other illness, like ear infection.
And one more thing, what kind of TV does he watch, if any? Is he seeing anything violent, including cartoons? Scooby Doo would rile up my son at 4.
Anonymous
08/06/2014 22:14
Subject: An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
Have you tried staying in the room with him until he falls asleep? If he's so tired (and I agree, he sounds overtired and try earlier bedtime), it won't take long. My DH stays in the room with my 3 YO (almost 4) (he just surfs the web on his phone) until he falls asleep...usually it's only 5 minutes.
Anonymous
08/06/2014 22:13
Subject: An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
And make sure he is physically very tired--lots of swimming, etc.
Anonymous
08/06/2014 22:08
Subject: An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
Have you bribed him? Like buy him a toy and bring it home and show it to him and say "if you stay in bed quietly you get this when you wake up".
Desperate times call for desperate measures. Do it for 4 days and by then he'll be well rested.
Desperate times call for desperate measures. Do it for 4 days and by then he'll be well rested.
Anonymous
08/06/2014 22:06
Subject: An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
He is so massively overtired. Can you put him to bed much, much earlier?
Anonymous
08/06/2014 22:03
Subject: An unsolvable sleep issue? 4 yr old boy
Here's the story. We have never had great sleep from our now 4 year old son but it has turned shockingly bad this summer. He was getting between 10-11 hours at night before we went on a two week long vacation. We were in a new place that was very crowded. Everyone shared a room and each night of the vacation sleep became more of an issue. Going to bed later and waking up earlier. We tried o stick to the home routine but he battled us and the circumstances were not helping. On our last night he screamed and threw the most violent temper tantrum we have ever experienced. Biting, scratching, kicking, throwing. We gave up and put him in the car and he fell asleep Immediately.
We figured it would be better again at home in his own room. But it has been a true nightmare. He is still extremely tired but we are at a loss to get him well rested. We are doing our old bedtime routine and everything seems fine until we leave the room at 7:30. Then begin the departures. He comes running out of his room hysterically laughing. We try and do the no emotion silent return to his room. But he is very violent. Kicking often he hurts himself and us. He has grabbed our glasses off our faces, scratched our faces, kicked, hit. He hits hard and this hurts. He is a high energy child but this defiant violence is like nothing we have ever seen before. We are overcome with sadness and don't know what to do. It is 10pm right now and after over two hours of this, we are sticking him in the car for a ride to have him fall asleep.
How do we get back to our old pre-vacation life? I miss my sweet boy who is a holy terror not just at night but all day long now that he is so overtired. Desperate for advice!!!!
We figured it would be better again at home in his own room. But it has been a true nightmare. He is still extremely tired but we are at a loss to get him well rested. We are doing our old bedtime routine and everything seems fine until we leave the room at 7:30. Then begin the departures. He comes running out of his room hysterically laughing. We try and do the no emotion silent return to his room. But he is very violent. Kicking often he hurts himself and us. He has grabbed our glasses off our faces, scratched our faces, kicked, hit. He hits hard and this hurts. He is a high energy child but this defiant violence is like nothing we have ever seen before. We are overcome with sadness and don't know what to do. It is 10pm right now and after over two hours of this, we are sticking him in the car for a ride to have him fall asleep.
How do we get back to our old pre-vacation life? I miss my sweet boy who is a holy terror not just at night but all day long now that he is so overtired. Desperate for advice!!!!