dcmom
08/05/2014 11:23
Subject: EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
Anonymous wrote:Non-economically disadvantaged students (who are disproportionately but not all white) are doing fine in every school they attend. I really think that if you switched the student bodies of--for example--Aiton and Eaton, all of a sudden you'd have different perceptions of each school.
A kid with involved, educated, parents is going to score advanced on DC-CAS wherever they go. So that's one reason to stay. The teachers are largely just fine, and the kids can get a diverse experience.
But if the school isn't doing anything to differentiate or challenge the few advanced kids, or if there are discipline/bullying problems I can see why parents want to leave.
I would be fine sending an academically advanced kid to my neighborhood school, where proficiency rates are about 30%, if the teachers could provide some real enrichment (not tutoring other kids or just sitting in a corner with a book) and the other students were well-behaved.
And in a small school, it only takes a few families making that choice before test scores go up. For example, in an elementary school with 100 kids in testing grades and 35% proficiency, moving in 10 proficient kids (so, 3 or 4 per grade) allows the teachers to move 5 students from basic to proficient (1 or 2 per grade) and wind up with 45% proficiency. Do it again the following year--find 10 families to stay or come in OOB at the testing grades, and get 6 students from basic to proficient. Now you're at 55% proficiency and DCPS and DCUM are giving it buzz. It's not easy to find or keep those proficient students though.
One thing that really hurts schools that are trying to retain students is the policy that once you're in OOB you can go to the destination middle school. People are therefore willing to play the lottery and leave an elementary they're fairly happy with in hopes of getting into one that feeds a better middle school. I am really disappointed that the DME's plan didn't address this issue, because I think it might be one of the major hurdles to improving schools (and probably one of the few hurdles DME is actually able to address--things like childhood poverty and low parental literacy are much greater issues but outside of her control).
That is a really good point about the feeder rights. I had not thought about that and wished I had put it in my feedback to the DME. Did you provide such feedback?
Anonymous
08/05/2014 11:16
Subject: EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
Non-economically disadvantaged students (who are disproportionately but not all white) are doing fine in every school they attend. I really think that if you switched the student bodies of--for example--Aiton and Eaton, all of a sudden you'd have different perceptions of each school.
A kid with involved, educated, parents is going to score advanced on DC-CAS wherever they go. So that's one reason to stay. The teachers are largely just fine, and the kids can get a diverse experience.
But if the school isn't doing anything to differentiate or challenge the few advanced kids, or if there are discipline/bullying problems I can see why parents want to leave.
I would be fine sending an academically advanced kid to my neighborhood school, where proficiency rates are about 30%, if the teachers could provide some real enrichment (not tutoring other kids or just sitting in a corner with a book) and the other students were well-behaved.
And in a small school, it only takes a few families making that choice before test scores go up. For example, in an elementary school with 100 kids in testing grades and 35% proficiency, moving in 10 proficient kids (so, 3 or 4 per grade) allows the teachers to move 5 students from basic to proficient (1 or 2 per grade) and wind up with 45% proficiency. Do it again the following year--find 10 families to stay or come in OOB at the testing grades, and get 6 students from basic to proficient. Now you're at 55% proficiency and DCPS and DCUM are giving it buzz. It's not easy to find or keep those proficient students though.
One thing that really hurts schools that are trying to retain students is the policy that once you're in OOB you can go to the destination middle school. People are therefore willing to play the lottery and leave an elementary they're fairly happy with in hopes of getting into one that feeds a better middle school. I am really disappointed that the DME's plan didn't address this issue, because I think it might be one of the major hurdles to improving schools (and probably one of the few hurdles DME is actually able to address--things like childhood poverty and low parental literacy are much greater issues but outside of her control).
A kid with involved, educated, parents is going to score advanced on DC-CAS wherever they go. So that's one reason to stay. The teachers are largely just fine, and the kids can get a diverse experience.
But if the school isn't doing anything to differentiate or challenge the few advanced kids, or if there are discipline/bullying problems I can see why parents want to leave.
I would be fine sending an academically advanced kid to my neighborhood school, where proficiency rates are about 30%, if the teachers could provide some real enrichment (not tutoring other kids or just sitting in a corner with a book) and the other students were well-behaved.
And in a small school, it only takes a few families making that choice before test scores go up. For example, in an elementary school with 100 kids in testing grades and 35% proficiency, moving in 10 proficient kids (so, 3 or 4 per grade) allows the teachers to move 5 students from basic to proficient (1 or 2 per grade) and wind up with 45% proficiency. Do it again the following year--find 10 families to stay or come in OOB at the testing grades, and get 6 students from basic to proficient. Now you're at 55% proficiency and DCPS and DCUM are giving it buzz. It's not easy to find or keep those proficient students though.
One thing that really hurts schools that are trying to retain students is the policy that once you're in OOB you can go to the destination middle school. People are therefore willing to play the lottery and leave an elementary they're fairly happy with in hopes of getting into one that feeds a better middle school. I am really disappointed that the DME's plan didn't address this issue, because I think it might be one of the major hurdles to improving schools (and probably one of the few hurdles DME is actually able to address--things like childhood poverty and low parental literacy are much greater issues but outside of her control).
Anonymous
08/05/2014 11:04
Subject: EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
I seriously believe it's a generational break between parents above and below 40 among the highly educated set.
Those below that age believe they are going to transform the City. Those above believe they need to do best for their kids. Both are reasonable approaches but very different.
I always assume people here who say I will take my kids out after 1st grade are simply older than me and not of the generation committed to coming in regardless of their predecessors.
Those below that age believe they are going to transform the City. Those above believe they need to do best for their kids. Both are reasonable approaches but very different.
I always assume people here who say I will take my kids out after 1st grade are simply older than me and not of the generation committed to coming in regardless of their predecessors.
Anonymous
08/05/2014 11:03
Subject: EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
Its hard to justify it when they are experimenting, and potentially failing, on your own child. Most would rather hedge their bets that their child gets better by moving.
Anonymous
08/05/2014 11:01
Subject: EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:After reading some of the comments in the Bruce Monroe thread, it puzzles me that many families are taking this route. How do you expect a school to improve if you just up and leave? What’s the point of living in the city? Your jobs or because you hope to land a spot in a Charter?
We are an EOTP family, who unlike others, plan on staying at our Title 1 school up to 5th grade.
How old is your child? And, how long have you lived in the city?
Those are the questions I'd put to you.
I've lived here a long time. And I see people like you come and go. And it's great! But, more often - you are excited in PS3 and PK4 and then burnt out by K....and then you leave in 1st grade.
If you had a 2nd or 3rd grader I'd take you more seriously. As someone who has lived in DC for awhile, its hard to take some of these posts seriously.
Which EOTP schools (other than Maury and Brent) have the most high SES 2nd graders? Is 2nd grade the grade to watch for? Will there be a thread here after school opens on demographic shifts in 2nd grades at those schools?
Anonymous
08/05/2014 10:58
Subject: EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
Anonymous wrote:After reading some of the comments in the Bruce Monroe thread, it puzzles me that many families are taking this route. How do you expect a school to improve if you just up and leave? What’s the point of living in the city? Your jobs or because you hope to land a spot in a Charter?
We are an EOTP family, who unlike others, plan on staying at our Title 1 school up to 5th grade.
How old is your child? And, how long have you lived in the city?
Those are the questions I'd put to you.
I've lived here a long time. And I see people like you come and go. And it's great! But, more often - you are excited in PS3 and PK4 and then burnt out by K....and then you leave in 1st grade.
If you had a 2nd or 3rd grader I'd take you more seriously. As someone who has lived in DC for awhile, its hard to take some of these posts seriously.
Anonymous
08/05/2014 10:53
Subject: EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What exactly do you think a group of parents working to improve the school will be able to accomplish? And why hasn't parental involvement been more successful in improving more EOTP schools so far?
I wonder about that too. Are parents expected to expand and/or improve the facilities? Or do regular maintenance? Review the curriculum? Provide in-class instructional support? Teacher training? Learning specialists?
Those sound like mostly things I would expect the school to cover well. Although I would point out any improvements that I think we need.
Sustained parental involvement (e.g., not bailing at 1st grade) is exactly what has improved schools both EOTP and WOTP - look back 10 years, it's not a different story.
Also, my definition of a good school is one that will provide the right opportunities for my child - not one with across the board high scores. The latter has more to do with having more high SES students, and is not directly connected to the first.
Anonymous
08/05/2014 10:51
Subject: Re:EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
I wonder about that too. Are parents expected to expand and/or improve the facilities? Or do regular maintenance? Review the curriculum? Provide in-class instructional support? Teacher training? Learning specialists?
Yes to all if you are WOTP.
Anonymous
08/05/2014 10:40
Subject: EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
Anonymous wrote:What exactly do you think a group of parents working to improve the school will be able to accomplish? And why hasn't parental involvement been more successful in improving more EOTP schools so far?
I wonder about that too. Are parents expected to expand and/or improve the facilities? Or do regular maintenance? Review the curriculum? Provide in-class instructional support? Teacher training? Learning specialists?
Anonymous
08/05/2014 10:35
Subject: EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
What exactly do you think a group of parents working to improve the school will be able to accomplish? And why hasn't parental involvement been more successful in improving more EOTP schools so far?
Anonymous
08/05/2014 10:26
Subject: Re:EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
Anonymous wrote:I'm also EOTP and plan to stay in and improve our DCPS. But I also get it, that some people won't and you won't get anywhere trying to convince them to do otherwise. It's jsut a different mindset / approach. We're better off focusing our efforts on the school and building connections with other parents who will stay.
I also imagine they find it just as offensive when you or I try to convince them to stay as when they try to convince us to leave for a charter or OOB.
+1
Anonymous
08/05/2014 10:19
Subject: Re:EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
I'm also EOTP and plan to stay in and improve our DCPS. But I also get it, that some people won't and you won't get anywhere trying to convince them to do otherwise. It's jsut a different mindset / approach. We're better off focusing our efforts on the school and building connections with other parents who will stay.
I also imagine they find it just as offensive when you or I try to convince them to stay as when they try to convince us to leave for a charter or OOB.
I also imagine they find it just as offensive when you or I try to convince them to stay as when they try to convince us to leave for a charter or OOB.
Anonymous
08/05/2014 10:15
Subject: EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
Anonymous wrote:After reading some of the comments in the Bruce Monroe thread, it puzzles me that many families are taking this route. How do you expect a school to improve if you just up and leave? What’s the point of living in the city? Your jobs or because you hope to land a spot in a Charter?
We are an EOTP family, who unlike others, plan on staying at our Title 1 school up to 5th grade.
Why does this puzzle you? I suppose it's nice that you think it's your job to improve a school, but many parents see it as the school's job to educate their child. That's not exactly the same thing. Not everyone is enrolling in a school with the intention of improving it, and if the school isn't up-to-par by K or 1st grade then parents whose number one priority is a high-quality education are well within their rights to bail.
Anonymous
08/05/2014 10:10
Subject: EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
We also plan on staying.
Anonymous
08/05/2014 10:07
Subject: EOTP Parents “ we will bail after k or 1st grade”
After reading some of the comments in the Bruce Monroe thread, it puzzles me that many families are taking this route. How do you expect a school to improve if you just up and leave? What’s the point of living in the city? Your jobs or because you hope to land a spot in a Charter?
We are an EOTP family, who unlike others, plan on staying at our Title 1 school up to 5th grade.
We are an EOTP family, who unlike others, plan on staying at our Title 1 school up to 5th grade.