jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Does Israel recognize Palestine? There are posters here who actually say there is no such thing as a Palestinian. The Likud Party's platform describes Gaza and the West Bank as part of Israel. Why are you concerned about the position of only one party in this conflict?

NP here. Yesh Atid, a member of the ruling coalition, along with Likud, supports a two state solution, so it isn't like the governing coalition has one position, and Likud has to go along with the wishes of their partners, or their coalition will collapse. Also, Likud has in the past held talks for disengagement. As for emphasis on Hamas, many posters here have claimed that Hamas wants a two state solution.

Those posters are wrong about Hamas. But, along the lines of your argument, Hamas joined the unity government with Fatah and the unity government supports a two-state solution. So, if transference of the government policy to Likud works, it should also work for the Palestinian unity government to Hamas.

I'm not saying Likud wants a two state solution based on transference, I'm saying Israel's government wants a two state solution. Likud, however, has held disengagements, which implies supporting a two state solution. Fatah is not involved in this current crisis, despite having a unified government, so in the context of what is happening now, they are irrelevant.

Netanyahu, Israel's current leader (so I assume what he says matters) just ruled out a Palestinian state:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/benjamin-netanyahu-palest_n_5598997.html

and

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-finally-speaks-his-mind/

"He made explicitly clear that he could never, ever, countenance a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank."

"But on Friday he made explicit that this could not extend to full Palestinian sovereignty."

So, does anyone want to distinguish between the positions of Hamas and the Prime Minister of Israel?

Sure. Hamas does not recognize Israel. At all. As in 'kill and capture from sea to sea' Israel, knowing this, is still willing to let there be a Palestine, just not a sovereign one with such a murderous goal. Nor would I. If people wanted to kill me, I would do what I could to keep murderous tools from their hands

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Does Israel recognize Palestine? There are posters here who actually say there is no such thing as a Palestinian. The Likud Party's platform describes Gaza and the West Bank as part of Israel. Why are you concerned about the position of only one party in this conflict?

NP here. Yesh Atid, a member of the ruling coalition, along with Likud, supports a two state solution, so it isn't like the governing coalition has one position, and Likud has to go along with the wishes of their partners, or their coalition will collapse. Also, Likud has in the past held talks for disengagement. As for emphasis on Hamas, many posters here have claimed that Hamas wants a two state solution.

Those posters are wrong about Hamas. But, along the lines of your argument, Hamas joined the unity government with Fatah and the unity government supports a two-state solution. So, if transference of the government policy to Likud works, it should also work for the Palestinian unity government to Hamas.

I'm not saying Likud wants a two state solution based on transference, I'm saying Israel's government wants a two state solution. Likud, however, has held disengagements, which implies supporting a two state solution. Fatah is not involved in this current crisis, despite having a unified government, so in the context of what is happening now, they are irrelevant.

Netanyahu, Israel's current leader (so I assume what he says matters) just ruled out a Palestinian state:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/benjamin-netanyahu-palest_n_5598997.html

and

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-finally-speaks-his-mind/

"He made explicitly clear that he could never, ever, countenance a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank."

"But on Friday he made explicit that this could not extend to full Palestinian sovereignty."

So, does anyone want to distinguish between the positions of Hamas and the Prime Minister of Israel?

Well, Hamas is willing to put recognition of Israel up for a popular referendum. I doubt Netanyahu would put Palestinian sovereignty up for a vote.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Does Israel recognize Palestine? There are posters here who actually say there is no such thing as a Palestinian. The Likud Party's platform describes Gaza and the West Bank as part of Israel. Why are you concerned about the position of only one party in this conflict?

NP here. Yesh Atid, a member of the ruling coalition, along with Likud, supports a two state solution, so it isn't like the governing coalition has one position, and Likud has to go along with the wishes of their partners, or their coalition will collapse. Also, Likud has in the past held talks for disengagement. As for emphasis on Hamas, many posters here have claimed that Hamas wants a two state solution.

Those posters are wrong about Hamas. But, along the lines of your argument, Hamas joined the unity government with Fatah and the unity government supports a two-state solution. So, if transference of the government policy to Likud works, it should also work for the Palestinian unity government to Hamas.

I'm not saying Likud wants a two state solution based on transference, I'm saying Israel's government wants a two state solution. Likud, however, has held disengagements, which implies supporting a two state solution. Fatah is not involved in this current crisis, despite having a unified government, so in the context of what is happening now, they are irrelevant.

Netanyahu, Israel's current leader (so I assume what he says matters) just ruled out a Palestinian state:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/benjamin-netanyahu-palest_n_5598997.html

and

http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-finally-speaks-his-mind/

"He made explicitly clear that he could never, ever, countenance a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank."

"But on Friday he made explicit that this could not extend to full Palestinian sovereignty."

So, does anyone want to distinguish between the positions of Hamas and the Prime Minister of Israel?

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Does Israel recognize Palestine? There are posters here who actually say there is no such thing as a Palestinian. The Likud Party's platform describes Gaza and the West Bank as part of Israel. Why are you concerned about the position of only one party in this conflict?

NP here. Yesh Atid, a member of the ruling coalition, along with Likud, supports a two state solution, so it isn't like the governing coalition has one position, and Likud has to go along with the wishes of their partners, or their coalition will collapse. Also, Likud has in the past held talks for disengagement. As for emphasis on Hamas, many posters here have claimed that Hamas wants a two state solution.

Those posters are wrong about Hamas. But, along the lines of your argument, Hamas joined the unity government with Fatah and the unity government supports a two-state solution. So, if transference of the government policy to Likud works, it should also work for the Palestinian unity government to Hamas.

I'm not saying Likud wants a two state solution based on transference, I'm saying Israel's government wants a two state solution. Likud, however, has held disengagements, which implies supporting a two state solution. Fatah is not involved in this current crisis, despite having a unified government, so in the context of what is happening now, they are irrelevant.

Stop the using the word "state" unless you know exactly what that entails.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Does Israel recognize Palestine? There are posters here who actually say there is no such thing as a Palestinian. The Likud Party's platform describes Gaza and the West Bank as part of Israel. Why are you concerned about the position of only one party in this conflict?

NP here. Yesh Atid, a member of the ruling coalition, along with Likud, supports a two state solution, so it isn't like the governing coalition has one position, and Likud has to go along with the wishes of their partners, or their coalition will collapse. Also, Likud has in the past held talks for disengagement. As for emphasis on Hamas, many posters here have claimed that Hamas wants a two state solution.

Those posters are wrong about Hamas. But, along the lines of your argument, Hamas joined the unity government with Fatah and the unity government supports a two-state solution. So, if transference of the government policy to Likud works, it should also work for the Palestinian unity government to Hamas.

I'm not saying Likud wants a two state solution based on transference, I'm saying Israel's government wants a two state solution. Likud, however, has held disengagements, which implies supporting a two state solution. Fatah is not involved in this current crisis, despite having a unified government, so in the context of what is happening now, they are irrelevant.

Anonymous wrote:Israel negotiates in good faith toward a two state solution with security guarantees for all.

Abbas and Fatah also generally seem to negotiate in good faith toward this mutually beneficial goal.

Hamas stays true to its charter goal of the destruction of Israel. Hamas lives up to its official designation as a terrorist organization. The current violence is entirely due to Hamas.

That's crazy. Israel has never stopped building settlements, which even the spineless U.S. foreign policy corps has always called illegitimate. How do you hold good-faith talks to end occupation while actively developing the land for your own purposes? For a very simple reason: so that you have more leverage when the final conversation about borders happen.

For those of you who claim Israel supports a two-state solution, stop saying "two states" without understanding what sort of state Israel is actually offering to Palestinians. Ask yourself:

- is this the state with full sovereign control over its land, air, space and water?

- is this a contiguous state, or is it a handful of settled spots connected by narrow roads which Israel intends to control forever?

- is it a state with full control over its economic activity, import, export, trade, commerce, air traffic?

- is it a state that integrates stolen and confiscated land?

When you have actual answers, then proceed. The "two-state" ditty is getting tired.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Does Israel recognize Palestine? There are posters here who actually say there is no such thing as a Palestinian. The Likud Party's platform describes Gaza and the West Bank as part of Israel. Why are you concerned about the position of only one party in this conflict?

NP here. Yesh Atid, a member of the ruling coalition, along with Likud, supports a two state solution, so it isn't like the governing coalition has one position, and Likud has to go along with the wishes of their partners, or their coalition will collapse. Also, Likud has in the past held talks for disengagement. As for emphasis on Hamas, many posters here have claimed that Hamas wants a two state solution.

Those posters are wrong about Hamas. But, along the lines of your argument, Hamas joined the unity government with Fatah and the unity government supports a two-state solution. So, if transference of the government policy to Likud works, it should also work for the Palestinian unity government to Hamas.

jsteele wrote:Does Israel recognize Palestine? There are posters here who actually say there is no such thing as a Palestinian. The Likud Party's platform describes Gaza and the West Bank as part of Israel. Why are you concerned about the position of only one party in this conflict?

NP here. Yesh Atid, a member of the ruling coalition, along with Likud, supports a two state solution, so it isn't like the governing coalition has one position, and Likud has to go along with the wishes of their partners, or their coalition will collapse. Also, Likud has in the past held talks for disengagement. As for emphasis on Hamas, many posters here have claimed that Hamas wants a two state solution.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Israel negotiates in good faith toward a two state solution with security guarantees for all.

Abbas and Fatah also generally seem to negotiate in good faith toward this mutually beneficial goal.

Hamas stays true to its charter goal of the destruction of Israel. Hamas lives up to its official designation as a terrorist organization. The current violence is entirely due to Hamas.

Good faith? What the fuck are you smoking? Israel has worked to derail the two state solution for the past 20 years. Ever notice all the settlements and siege of Gaza?

You are ignorant obviously, but start with the Oslo Accords, and get back to us:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords

From your source:

"In 20 years since the Oslo Accords, until 2013, the settler population is tripled."

Is it good faith to triple the settler population of land you are planing to give up?

Anonymous wrote:

Israel negotiates in good faith toward a two state solution with security guarantees for all.

Abbas and Fatah also generally seem to negotiate in good faith toward this mutually beneficial goal.

Hamas stays true to its charter goal of the destruction of Israel. Hamas lives up to its official designation as a terrorist organization. The current violence is entirely due to Hamas.

Good faith? What the fuck are you smoking? Israel has worked to derail the two state solution for the past 20 years. Ever notice all the settlements and siege of Gaza?

You are ignorant obviously, but start with the Oslo Accords, and get back to us:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords

Israel negotiates in good faith toward a two state solution with security guarantees for all.

Abbas and Fatah also generally seem to negotiate in good faith toward this mutually beneficial goal.

Hamas stays true to its charter goal of the destruction of Israel. Hamas lives up to its official designation as a terrorist organization. The current violence is entirely due to Hamas.

Good faith? What the fuck are you smoking? Israel has worked to derail the two state solution for the past 20 years. Ever notice all the settlements and siege of Gaza?

Ugh.... This is what he said in that interview :

I'm ready to coexist with the Jews, with the Christians and the Arabs and non-Arabs," he said. "However, I do not coexist with the occupiers."

Pressed on whether Palestinians could recognize the state of Israel as a Jewish state, Meshaal reiterated Hamas' position -- the group does not recognize Israel.

"When we have a Palestinian state then the Palestinian state will decide on its policies. You cannot actually ask me about the future. I answered you," he said.

"But Palestinian people can have their say when they have their own state without occupation."

Israel negotiates in good faith toward a two state solution with security guarantees for all.

Abbas and Fatah also generally seem to negotiate in good faith toward this mutually beneficial goal.

Hamas stays true to its charter goal of the destruction of Israel. Hamas lives up to its official designation as a terrorist organization. The current violence is entirely due to Hamas.

Does Israel recognize Palestine? There are posters here who actually say there is no such thing as a Palestinian. The Likud Party's platform describes Gaza and the West Bank as part of Israel. Why are you concerned about the position of only one party in this conflict?

In an interview with Charlie Rose of CBS This Morning, Hamas leader Meshaal affirmed Hamas' position - as stated in their supposedly "old" charter, that they refuse to recognize Israel:

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/hamas-leader-i-do-not-want-to-live-with-a-state-of-occupiers/

This fact is obvious to everyone, other than a certain poster here who continues to challenge even the most obvious of facts, such as Hamas adherence to their charter goal of the destruction of Israel.

The Palestinian people should rise up against the designated terrorist organization, Hamas.