Anonymous
07/28/2014 14:26
Subject: Re:Let's put this in perspective
Anonymous wrote:That one state solution worked real well for Yugoslavia after Tito died....
The divided state solution is working out just peachy for Pakistan and Indian though, right?
The British effed up bigtime. You can't just slice up colonized territories like that, and expect things to roll over smoothly. 
Anonymous
07/28/2014 14:25
Subject: Let's put this in perspective
The only times the land known as Israel was an independent nation (locally governed) was under the Jews in the House of David. and later the Maccabees. The house of David fell to the greeks, and the Maccabees fell to the romans. The romans fell to the byzantines, then the various rulers of the rising early muslim empires. Briefly, Israel/Palestine was occupied by the Crusades (twice). Then, the Ottomans owned Israel/Palestine. The British took ownership after WWI.
There has never been an independent land of Palestine....but there historically had been Israel.
There has never been an independent land of Palestine....but there historically had been Israel.
Anonymous
07/28/2014 14:24
Subject: Let's put this in perspective
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:IF you lived in CCMD and you thought that DC and CCDC "had no right to exist" and you kept lobbing rockets across Western Avenue, hitting our houses, destroying our schools etc one day we would get fed up with it and fight back. That's what is happening in Israel. Hamas does not want peace. They want to annihilate Israel.
I think in actuality Israel wants to annihilate Palestine and all of there people. It is quite apparent by their actions-had they just kept the land they initially stole/got from the UN-and peacefully co-existed with the arabs (perhaps even helping them to prosper as well) there would be peace at least in that small sliver of the middle east. Instead, feeling superior, they want to control and oppress, take over and monopolize, ans become segregated and separatists. They are greedy and self righteous, and hypocrites going against everything in their Talmud and religion.
In 1948, Israel expressed hope to live at peace with her neighbors. Her neighbors responded by attacking. Israel won, resulting in the bounty boundaries pre-1967.
Are you suggesting Israel retreat to the UN lines, or the 1967 lines?
Not pp, but Israel should have never been created. You don't go and put a new country, where people are already living. Palestinians were not the cause of the Holocaust, and I think there's a lot of misplaced expectations & responsibility placed on them. I don't support Israel. I don't support a Jewish state. I support a single, secular state where people can live cohesively, together, in a democratic setting (which Israel is not - despite it's false claims).
Assuming a one-state solution is the right answer, how will you enforce a secular state, when the state will quickly be majority muslim? Based on the Jews experience in every other Muslim country, you are basically calling for the mass genocide of 7 million Jews.
Who is calling for the mass genocide of Jews? Were the Palestinians doing so? Where they calling for further genocide after WWII? Were the Muslims? No, they were not - they got along quite well, actually. There's a history and chain of events that you cannot ignore, and that political opposition to Israel may actually be justified - without calling for further Jewish genocide.
How do other secular democracies maintain their position? Can a one-state solution not follow a similar paradigm?
Name a single Muslim-majority secular democracy where Jews are allowed to live and practice their religion in peace.
Anonymous
07/28/2014 14:23
Subject: Re:Let's put this in perspective
That one state solution worked real well for Yugoslavia after Tito died....
Anonymous
07/28/2014 14:21
Subject: Let's put this in perspective
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:IF you lived in CCMD and you thought that DC and CCDC "had no right to exist" and you kept lobbing rockets across Western Avenue, hitting our houses, destroying our schools etc one day we would get fed up with it and fight back. That's what is happening in Israel. Hamas does not want peace. They want to annihilate Israel.
I think in actuality Israel wants to annihilate Palestine and all of there people. It is quite apparent by their actions-had they just kept the land they initially stole/got from the UN-and peacefully co-existed with the arabs (perhaps even helping them to prosper as well) there would be peace at least in that small sliver of the middle east. Instead, feeling superior, they want to control and oppress, take over and monopolize, ans become segregated and separatists. They are greedy and self righteous, and hypocrites going against everything in their Talmud and religion.
In 1948, Israel expressed hope to live at peace with her neighbors. Her neighbors responded by attacking. Israel won, resulting in the bounty boundaries pre-1967.
Are you suggesting Israel retreat to the UN lines, or the 1967 lines?
Not pp, but Israel should have never been created. You don't go and put a new country, where people are already living. Palestinians were not the cause of the Holocaust, and I think there's a lot of misplaced expectations & responsibility placed on them. I don't support Israel. I don't support a Jewish state. I support a single, secular state where people can live cohesively, together, in a democratic setting (which Israel is not - despite it's false claims).
Assuming a one-state solution is the right answer, how will you enforce a secular state, when the state will quickly be majority muslim? Based on the Jews experience in every other Muslim country, you are basically calling for the mass genocide of 7 million Jews.
Who is calling for the mass genocide of Jews? Were the Palestinians doing so? Where they calling for further genocide after WWII? Were the Muslims? No, they were not - they got along quite well, actually. There's a history and chain of events that you cannot ignore, and that political opposition to Israel may actually be justified - without calling for further Jewish genocide.
How do other secular democracies maintain their position? Can a one-state solution not follow a similar paradigm?
Anonymous
07/28/2014 14:17
Subject: Let's put this in perspective
The yews were living there too. They were the majority in the land initially called Israel. There was no country there...it was a british territory. Learn your history.
The british vacated the land, and turned it over to the newly formed UN. The UN portioned it into a jewish majority and an arab majority.
The arabs did not accept this arrangement.
The british vacated the land, and turned it over to the newly formed UN. The UN portioned it into a jewish majority and an arab majority.
The arabs did not accept this arrangement.
Anonymous
07/28/2014 14:16
Subject: Let's put this in perspective
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:IF you lived in CCMD and you thought that DC and CCDC "had no right to exist" and you kept lobbing rockets across Western Avenue, hitting our houses, destroying our schools etc one day we would get fed up with it and fight back. That's what is happening in Israel. Hamas does not want peace. They want to annihilate Israel.
I think in actuality Israel wants to annihilate Palestine and all of there people. It is quite apparent by their actions-had they just kept the land they initially stole/got from the UN-and peacefully co-existed with the arabs (perhaps even helping them to prosper as well) there would be peace at least in that small sliver of the middle east. Instead, feeling superior, they want to control and oppress, take over and monopolize, ans become segregated and separatists. They are greedy and self righteous, and hypocrites going against everything in their Talmud and religion.
In 1948, Israel expressed hope to live at peace with her neighbors. Her neighbors responded by attacking. Israel won, resulting in the bounty boundaries pre-1967.
Are you suggesting Israel retreat to the UN lines, or the 1967 lines?
Not pp, but Israel should have never been created. You don't go and put a new country, where people are already living. Palestinians were not the cause of the Holocaust, and I think there's a lot of misplaced expectations & responsibility placed on them. I don't support Israel. I don't support a Jewish state. I support a single, secular state where people can live cohesively, together, in a democratic setting (which Israel is not - despite it's false claims).
Assuming a one-state solution is the right answer, how will you enforce a secular state, when the state will quickly be majority muslim? Based on the Jews experience in every other Muslim country, you are basically calling for the mass genocide of 7 million Jews.
Anonymous
07/28/2014 14:14
Subject: Re:Let's put this in perspective
jsteele wrote:That's a very limited perspective. Consider this perspective instead:
The combined Washington, DC and Chevy Chase, MD used to be your homeland. Some strangers came from Ashburn and kicked you out, forcing you to live as a refugee in CCMD. For 40 years, they occupied CCMD, restricting every aspect of your life. Even when the Ashburnists withdrew from CCMD, they controlled travel to and from CCMD, controlled imports and exports, controlled customs duties and generally turned CCMD into an open air prison. Then, imagine that CCMD holds an election for town council and when a party disliked by the Ashburnists wins, a trade embargo is implemented and political leaders are arrested and killed.
You might want to fire a rocket at some point as well.
Didn't you leave out some bits?
Anonymous
07/28/2014 14:14
Subject: Let's put this in perspective
Yes Jeff +1. Also Muslima is right - people forget or here in the US they just don't know.
Anonymous
07/28/2014 14:12
Subject: Let's put this in perspective
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:IF you lived in CCMD and you thought that DC and CCDC "had no right to exist" and you kept lobbing rockets across Western Avenue, hitting our houses, destroying our schools etc one day we would get fed up with it and fight back. That's what is happening in Israel. Hamas does not want peace. They want to annihilate Israel.
I think in actuality Israel wants to annihilate Palestine and all of there people. It is quite apparent by their actions-had they just kept the land they initially stole/got from the UN-and peacefully co-existed with the arabs (perhaps even helping them to prosper as well) there would be peace at least in that small sliver of the middle east. Instead, feeling superior, they want to control and oppress, take over and monopolize, ans become segregated and separatists. They are greedy and self righteous, and hypocrites going against everything in their Talmud and religion.
In 1948, Israel expressed hope to live at peace with her neighbors. Her neighbors responded by attacking. Israel won, resulting in the bounty boundaries pre-1967.
Are you suggesting Israel retreat to the UN lines, or the 1967 lines?
Not pp, but Israel should have never been created. You don't go and put a new country, where people are already living. Palestinians were not the cause of the Holocaust, and I think there's a lot of misplaced expectations & responsibility placed on them. I don't support Israel. I don't support a Jewish state. I support a single, secular state where people can live cohesively, together, in a democratic setting (which Israel is not - despite it's false claims).
Muslima
07/28/2014 14:09
Subject: Re:Let's put this in perspective
jsteele wrote:That's a very limited perspective. Consider this perspective instead:
The combined Washington, DC and Chevy Chase, MD used to be your homeland. Some strangers came from Ashburn and kicked you out, forcing you to live as a refugee in CCMD. For 40 years, they occupied CCMD, restricting every aspect of your life. Even when the Ashburnists withdrew from CCMD, they controlled travel to and from CCMD, controlled imports and exports, controlled customs duties and generally turned CCMD into an open air prison. Then, imagine that CCMD holds an election for town council and when a party disliked by the Ashburnists wins, a trade embargo is implemented and political leaders are arrested and killed.
You might want to fire a rocket at some point as well.
+1 people seem to forget the history of this conflict and how it all started
Anonymous
07/28/2014 14:07
Subject: Let's put this in perspective
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:IF you lived in CCMD and you thought that DC and CCDC "had no right to exist" and you kept lobbing rockets across Western Avenue, hitting our houses, destroying our schools etc one day we would get fed up with it and fight back. That's what is happening in Israel. Hamas does not want peace. They want to annihilate Israel.
I think in actuality Israel wants to annihilate Palestine and all of there people. It is quite apparent by their actions-had they just kept the land they initially stole/got from the UN-and peacefully co-existed with the arabs (perhaps even helping them to prosper as well) there would be peace at least in that small sliver of the middle east. Instead, feeling superior, they want to control and oppress, take over and monopolize, ans become segregated and separatists. They are greedy and self righteous, and hypocrites going against everything in their Talmud and religion.
In 1948, Israel expressed hope to live at peace with her neighbors. Her neighbors responded by attacking. Israel won, resulting in the bounty boundaries pre-1967.
Are you suggesting Israel retreat to the UN lines, or the 1967 lines?
Anonymous
07/28/2014 14:04
Subject: Let's put this in perspective
Anonymous wrote:IF you lived in CCMD and you thought that DC and CCDC "had no right to exist" and you kept lobbing rockets across Western Avenue, hitting our houses, destroying our schools etc one day we would get fed up with it and fight back. That's what is happening in Israel. Hamas does not want peace. They want to annihilate Israel.
I think in actuality Israel wants to annihilate Palestine and all of there people. It is quite apparent by their actions-had they just kept the land they initially stole/got from the UN-and peacefully co-existed with the arabs (perhaps even helping them to prosper as well) there would be peace at least in that small sliver of the middle east. Instead, feeling superior, they want to control and oppress, take over and monopolize, ans become segregated and separatists. They are greedy and self righteous, and hypocrites going against everything in their Talmud and religion.
jsteele
07/28/2014 13:06
Subject: Re:Let's put this in perspective
That's a very limited perspective. Consider this perspective instead:
The combined Washington, DC and Chevy Chase, MD used to be your homeland. Some strangers came from Ashburn and kicked you out, forcing you to live as a refugee in CCMD. For 40 years, they occupied CCMD, restricting every aspect of your life. Even when the Ashburnists withdrew from CCMD, they controlled travel to and from CCMD, controlled imports and exports, controlled customs duties and generally turned CCMD into an open air prison. Then, imagine that CCMD holds an election for town council and when a party disliked by the Ashburnists wins, a trade embargo is implemented and political leaders are arrested and killed.
You might want to fire a rocket at some point as well.
The combined Washington, DC and Chevy Chase, MD used to be your homeland. Some strangers came from Ashburn and kicked you out, forcing you to live as a refugee in CCMD. For 40 years, they occupied CCMD, restricting every aspect of your life. Even when the Ashburnists withdrew from CCMD, they controlled travel to and from CCMD, controlled imports and exports, controlled customs duties and generally turned CCMD into an open air prison. Then, imagine that CCMD holds an election for town council and when a party disliked by the Ashburnists wins, a trade embargo is implemented and political leaders are arrested and killed.
You might want to fire a rocket at some point as well.
Anonymous
07/28/2014 12:55
Subject: Let's put this in perspective
IF you lived in CCMD and you thought that DC and CCDC "had no right to exist" and you kept lobbing rockets across Western Avenue, hitting our houses, destroying our schools etc one day we would get fed up with it and fight back. That's what is happening in Israel. Hamas does not want peace. They want to annihilate Israel.