jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From an outsider's perspective, I wonder if you could explain why Palestinians and their supporters often continue to use the word "martyrs" to refer to Gazans killed in this conflict. The pain and devastation is obvious and palpable, yet I believe the language suggests to many Americans that Hamas treats killed "martrys" as their currency in trade.

I wish for a world with fewer martyrs and more children growing up with their basic needs met.

Totally agree. People who eagerly and willingly engage in war can't turn around and say how horrible war is. If you are against war, don't engage in war.

A man once said "Give me liberty, or give me death!" and urged the local population to launch an armed rebellion in order to seek independence from an unwanted occupier. That man, Patrick Henry, later became the governor of Virginia and is honored as one of America's esteemed founding fathers. To think that those lost in America's war of independence might be considered nothing but "currency in trade".

Anonymous wrote:

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From an outsider's perspective, I wonder if you could explain why Palestinians and their supporters often continue to use the word "martyrs" to refer to Gazans killed in this conflict. The pain and devastation is obvious and palpable, yet I believe the language suggests to many Americans that Hamas treats killed "martrys" as their currency in trade.

I wish for a world with fewer martyrs and more children growing up with their basic needs met.

That is just an Islamic term and really has been vilified by the West. We even call people who die in childbirth and car accidents martyrs. In Islam, we believe that certain types of deaths elevate the person to a certain level in the Hereafter, because of how painful or tragic the death is. The arabic term is "Shaheed". This has nothing to do with wanting to die, or suicide bombing, terrorism ect.

-The one who dies from a long disease is considered a martyr
-A pregnant woman who dies in pregnancy or while giving birth is considered a martyr
-Whoever is killed defending his property is a martyr.
-he who dies in defense of his own life is a martyr; he who dies in defense of his faith is a martyr; and he who dies in defense of his family is a martyr.
-The one who speaks to a tyrannical leader and commands and forbids him, then the latter kills him–he is a martyr
-Whoever is killed unjustly is considered a martyr.
ect....

E
So, whenever a Muslim dies in one of these ways, you will hear other Muslims call him/her "Martyr" and that is why you hear that in Palestine. Muslims believe that the highest and most honorable death is to die as a Martyr, that doesn't mean we walk around wanting to die or we want to die on a battlefield. To the contrary, like i said earlier even dying in a car accident is considered dying as a martyr. We just believe that the reward of the martyr is superior to any other in the after life, and we consider people who are killed in Palestine of having been killed unjustly, that is why you will hear people call them "Martyrs"

Thank you for the explanation.

I think it helps explain why those who clearly wanted to live in peace, those who were prepared to die if necessary for their country and, yes, those who have caused or provoked their own deaths all have been called martys. You are right that the term often has a negative connotation to a Western ear, and I sensed there was more to it than one could glean from various sources of propoganda.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From an outsider's perspective, I wonder if you could explain why Palestinians and their supporters often continue to use the word "martyrs" to refer to Gazans killed in this conflict. The pain and devastation is obvious and palpable, yet I believe the language suggests to many Americans that Hamas treats killed "martrys" as their currency in trade.

I wish for a world with fewer martyrs and more children growing up with their basic needs met.

Totally agree. People who eagerly and willingly engage in war can't turn around and say how horrible war is. If you are against war, don't engage in war.

A man once said "Give me liberty, or give me death!" and urged the local population to launch an armed rebellion in order to seek independence from an unwanted occupier. That man, Patrick Henry, later became the governor of Virginia and is honored as one of America's esteemed founding fathers. To think that those lost in America's war of independence might be considered nothing but "currency in trade".

I'm not that man. In this day and age, we admire people like Nelson Mandela and Gandhi.

Muslima wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From an outsider's perspective, I wonder if you could explain why Palestinians and their supporters often continue to use the word "martyrs" to refer to Gazans killed in this conflict. The pain and devastation is obvious and palpable, yet I believe the language suggests to many Americans that Hamas treats killed "martrys" as their currency in trade.

I wish for a world with fewer martyrs and more children growing up with their basic needs met.

That is just an Islamic term and really has been vilified by the West. We even call people who die in childbirth and car accidents martyrs. In Islam, we believe that certain types of deaths elevate the person to a certain level in the Hereafter, because of how painful or tragic the death is. The arabic term is "Shaheed". This has nothing to do with wanting to die, or suicide bombing, terrorism ect.

-The one who dies from a long disease is considered a martyr
-A pregnant woman who dies in pregnancy or while giving birth is considered a martyr
-Whoever is killed defending his property is a martyr.
-he who dies in defense of his own life is a martyr; he who dies in defense of his faith is a martyr; and he who dies in defense of his family is a martyr.
-The one who speaks to a tyrannical leader and commands and forbids him, then the latter kills him–he is a martyr
-Whoever is killed unjustly is considered a martyr.
ect....

E
So, whenever a Muslim dies in one of these ways, you will hear other Muslims call him/her "Martyr" and that is why you hear that in Palestine. Muslims believe that the highest and most honorable death is to die as a Martyr, that doesn't mean we walk around wanting to die or we want to die on a battlefield. To the contrary, like i said earlier even dying in a car accident is considered dying as a martyr. We just believe that the reward of the martyr is superior to any other in the after life, and we consider people who are killed in Palestine of having been killed unjustly, that is why you will hear people call them "Martyrs"

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From an outsider's perspective, I wonder if you could explain why Palestinians and their supporters often continue to use the word "martyrs" to refer to Gazans killed in this conflict. The pain and devastation is obvious and palpable, yet I believe the language suggests to many Americans that Hamas treats killed "martrys" as their currency in trade.

I wish for a world with fewer martyrs and more children growing up with their basic needs met.

Totally agree. People who eagerly and willingly engage in war can't turn around and say how horrible war is. If you are against war, don't engage in war.

A man once said "Give me liberty, or give me death!" and urged the local population to launch an armed rebellion in order to seek independence from an unwanted occupier. That man, Patrick Henry, later became the governor of Virginia and is honored as one of America's esteemed founding fathers. To think that those lost in America's war of independence might be considered nothing but "currency in trade".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From an outsider's perspective, I wonder if you could explain why Palestinians and their supporters often continue to use the word "martyrs" to refer to Gazans killed in this conflict. The pain and devastation is obvious and palpable, yet I believe the language suggests to many Americans that Hamas treats killed "martrys" as their currency in trade.

I wish for a world with fewer martyrs and more children growing up with their basic needs met.

Totally agree. People who eagerly and willingly engage in war can't turn around and say how horrible war is. If you are against war, don't engage in war.

Anonymous wrote:From an outsider's perspective, I wonder if you could explain why Palestinians and their supporters often continue to use the word "martyrs" to refer to Gazans killed in this conflict. The pain and devastation is obvious and palpable, yet I believe the language suggests to many Americans that Hamas treats killed "martrys" as their currency in trade.

I wish for a world with fewer martyrs and more children growing up with their basic needs met.

Anonymous wrote:From an outsider's perspective, I wonder if you could explain why Palestinians and their supporters often continue to use the word "martyrs" to refer to Gazans killed in this conflict. The pain and devastation is obvious and palpable, yet I believe the language suggests to many Americans that Hamas treats killed "martrys" as their currency in trade.

I wish for a world with fewer martyrs and more children growing up with their basic needs met.

Anonymous wrote:From an outsider's perspective, I wonder if you could explain why Palestinians and their supporters often continue to use the word "martyrs" to refer to Gazans killed in this conflict. The pain and devastation is obvious and palpable, yet I believe the language suggests to many Americans that Hamas treats killed "martrys" as their currency in trade.

I wish for a world with fewer martyrs and more children growing up with their basic needs met.