13:15 -- when I said make counseling a condition, I meant with your sister, not with the kids.

I'm guessing the kids are really grieving the loss of their family as they know it, and may be trying to piss you off so they can go home, whatever home is like these days. So don't make any of the consequences for the kids being "sent home" -- that will just tempt them to act up on purpose.

I think you've done enough, and your sister needs to get her act together and take her kids back. The longer they stay with you, the more they are going to feel like their mom does not want them. The kids need something different from their parents, not something different from you. You're doing a great job.

Can you and your mom get your sister to go to therapy (individual and/or with the kids)?

Definitely continue to stay involved with the kids after they go home somehow, but their parents need to get their acts together.

Just keep loving them. They might well be at their worst, perhaps they are blowing off steam in a way they can't to their parents. Forgive them their behavior even as you keep enforcing basic rules...

And send them home on the agreed-upon date. Maybe with some baked goods for your sister. Then say a silent prayer of thanksgiving you're not in her shoes.

I think the fact that "what happens now could make or break them," and you recognize that, really does give you a mandate to help them through this.

Forget your parents and your sister and her STBEx and focus on the people you care about: your husband, your kids, your sister's kids.

Talk with your husband and kids (separately) and come up with a few specific, concrete things that would make this more manageable for them -- maybe once a week do something that's just your nuclear family? maybe certain behaviors from the visiting kids bother your husband more than others, and you can focus on those?

Be really clear with your sister's kids that you are committed to helping them through a really shitty situation, but certain things are non-negotiable. (Figure out ahead of time what those things are, and what the consequences will be if they don't meet them.) BUT also talk with each of them, separately, about what specific concrete things might make the summer more bearable for them.

How old are the kids (yours and your sisters)? What are their summer plans? Are you in a position to get them into camps or other activities that get everyone out of the house? Depending on the ages/genders, think about splitting up the siblings for camps -- like if you have a DD about the same age as a female cousin, maybe have those two do the same program while kids of other ages/genders do other things?

Keep in mind also that school starts in less than two months. I'm guessing they'll wind up going back to their mom when school starts? So that's a natural end to things that doesn't involve you kicking them out.

Also, if your sister says therapy is OK, do you need their dad's permission? If not, maybe make counseling a condition of them staying with you. (You don't mention anything about finances -- which is understandable, it's not our business, but makes it harder to advise you. If you can afford to send them to therapy yourself, I wouldn't hesitate. If you need their parents to pay for it, that's another story.)

OP, just wanted to say you are a great sister and your DH is a trooper. Sad to say I don't think my DH would be so welcoming to my own sibling's kids. I like the suggestion above about coming down hard with some rules. But ultimately your own family must come first .

Anonymous wrote:I would come down hard on the whole situation.

I would say, "I get it we are all in a shitastic situation"... "I am sorry your parents are getting a divorce, I am sorry you are being forced to stay here" turn to your kids "I am sorry that your whole world has been invaded" but.... "we are family and we need to make this work" these are the rules...

I would write down the rules.

Wake (time)
shower (time)
eat (time)
clean up your own stuff
Activity... what do you do pool, hiking, just sit around all day

I would make the kids (1 at a time) help with dinner, I would make them earn screen time, etc.

Find things for them to do withOUT each other so they get time alone.

They need to act like a team ... a family!

They should have an opportunity to express themselves, if something bothers them hear them out (individually).

Truthfully... I wish I could have done this with my niece and nephew who are now a wreck.

I was thinking of a similar script in my head while reading your scenario. You could also add that you can't do anything to change all the hurt but that in your home, we try not to hurt each other and if we do, we make it right by apologizing.

Anonymous wrote:I would come down hard on the whole situation.

I would say, "I get it we are all in a shitastic situation"... "I am sorry your parents are getting a divorce, I am sorry you are being forced to stay here" turn to your kids "I am sorry that your whole world has been invaded" but.... "we are family and we need to make this work" these are the rules...

I would write down the rules.

Wake (time)
shower (time)
eat (time)
clean up your own stuff
Activity... what do you do pool, hiking, just sit around all day

I would make the kids (1 at a time) help with dinner, I would make them earn screen time, etc.

Find things for them to do withOUT each other so they get time alone.

They need to act like a team ... a family!

They should have an opportunity to express themselves, if something bothers them hear them out (individually).

Truthfully... I wish I could have done this with my niece and nephew who are now a wreck.

NP- but the problem she's going to encounter is - "or else." Because the or else is sending them home, which I am sure they would say they want (even if its not in their best interests.) I agree with this line of thinking, but perhaps you could do it with more carrot and less stick - all kids get to earn an allowance each week or go on a fun day trip or something.

You've done enough. Send them home.

I would come down hard on the whole situation.

I would say, "I get it we are all in a shitastic situation"... "I am sorry your parents are getting a divorce, I am sorry you are being forced to stay here" turn to your kids "I am sorry that your whole world has been invaded" but.... "we are family and we need to make this work" these are the rules...

I would write down the rules.

Wake (time)
shower (time)
eat (time)
clean up your own stuff
Activity... what do you do pool, hiking, just sit around all day

I would make the kids (1 at a time) help with dinner, I would make them earn screen time, etc.

Find things for them to do withOUT each other so they get time alone.

They need to act like a team ... a family!

They should have an opportunity to express themselves, if something bothers them hear them out (individually).

Truthfully... I wish I could have done this with my niece and nephew who are now a wreck.

OP, you are a superstar. But I don't understand why the kids have to continue to live with you. Agree with the PP--what is the sister doing that she can't take care of her own kids? In this time, she should have been able to find her own place and get her kids back.

This is very sad - and tough for you.

But OP, your family has to come first. Your husband and children should have some say as to how long they stay.

Meanwhile, what is you sister doing without the kids there? Would the parents agree to a support group for the kids?

Are your parents local? How about your unwell father comes to stay with you and the kids stay with your mom?

What ages are sister's kids, and what ages are your kids?
How long have then been here? What was the original date of departure, and what is the new (later) date suggested by your sister?
Sorry for all the questions, but I think it will help you get better responses.
For now, just know that you've already been a good supportive sister.

sad situation. How old are they?

My sister, with whom I generally have a good long-distance relationship, is suffering from some serious issues and is currently going through a messy divorce. Growing up, she was always the proverbial 'golden child' and I think my parents are finding it particularly difficult to come to terms with the complexity of her tricky situation. My mom asked me to have her three children to stay with us because she thinks they need a break. She cannot have them because my dad is unwell. I agreed. Because my sister's husband has always disliked our family, we have not had much to do with them on a family to family basis. I tend to go and see my sister when I can. Fast forward to what is turning into a disastrous holiday. My sister's kids (and I understand and am deeply sensitive to the context) have an astoundingly challenging mix of aggression, entitlement, disrespect and deep seated bitterness towards each other (I think both blame each other for the divorce and have been manipulated by their parents in a really sad and hideous way). Nothing is right. Endless sniping. Everything I do is met with snide or pejorative remarks and frankly they are unbelievably frustrating to be around. If I take them somewhere, it's the wrong place. If I don't take them anywhere, they are bored. If my kids suggest doing something, the suggestions are met with scorn. They whine and moan all day unless they are in front of a screen which is not something we normally allow in the summer. They just plain nasty to my kids who are by no means perfect but mostly respectful, generally nice to each other and all chip in to help in our now rather crowded house on a day to day basis. Meanwhile, my sister is making noises about me keeping the kids for longer, my kids are making noises about wanting to go and live somewhere else, my husband has been a superstar but is over the current dynamic (he's not used to being told to 'go to hell' when suggesting someone might like to turn in for the night), my mom thinks I 'owe' it to my sister to help her more, my sister's husband calls the kids incessantly so I have an ongoing commentary about the various failings of our household because I "force" them to shower every so often, help clean up after meals, tell me where they are going and who they are going with etc. I am at my wits end. I am really trying. I know these kids need something from me but what? I tried to pose the option of getting them some therapy but their dad flatly refused (I'm led to believe that therapy is for pussies). Can anyone give me advice? If I send them home I'm sending them into a horrid hornets nest and yet another person will have let them down. If I keep them for longer I am worried about the impact on my family. I am worried about me. I have no mandate to try and help them navigate some change and I am sick of being judged and manipulated by my family who appear to think that because I'm okay I should look after everyone else. These kids are at an age where what happens now could make or break them. So what do I do?