Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a sobering article. I think of some of parents at my kids 'top' private school who are constantly talking about their kids going to HYP, do or die. I don't even want to think about what goes on behind closed doors with their kids.

I also read the comments after the article. Though there were numerous psychological comments and one dissertation from a physician, the comment that carried the most weight with me said "I have always told my girls (from middle school and beyond) there is always a way out. You don't have to go back. Say the word and we can change it."

Wise words. I would also add that 'B' grades or even 'C' are not the end of the world. You will (not can) still be successful.

but the parents in the article were this way too, and it didn't help. The young lady in the article clearly had that opportunity and didn't want to take it.

The young lady in the article was a 3.5 student with a heavy extracurricular. When expectations are high all around you, it's hard to take an opportunity that although better for you personally could be perceived as giving up, letting people down.

My DC got 3 As and 2 B+ the final high school semester. Our reaction was as if he had discovered a cure for cancer. We made sure he knew that we knew he worked hard and did a spectacular job. No talk of getting the B+ to an A. He is strong in his preferred areas and we encourage that. We also encourage that he will do well no matter where he goes, and it's just as much about the passion he has for the subjects he loves. Being cajoled and nagged about A grades opens a door for discouragement and overt stress if those grades aren't realized.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a sobering article. I think of some of parents at my kids 'top' private school who are constantly talking about their kids going to HYP, do or die. I don't even want to think about what goes on behind closed doors with their kids.

I also read the comments after the article. Though there were numerous psychological comments and one dissertation from a physician, the comment that carried the most weight with me said "I have always told my girls (from middle school and beyond) there is always a way out. You don't have to go back. Say the word and we can change it."

Wise words. I would also add that 'B' grades or even 'C' are not the end of the world. You will (not can) still be successful.

but the parents in the article were this way too, and it didn't help. The young lady in the article clearly had that opportunity and didn't want to take it.

According to the article, the dad talked with Madison about looking into transferring from Penn and the Lehigh coach suggested she talk to others about possibly making the transfer because "she should be happy." 30 minutes later, she was dead.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I loosened the reins in 12th grade - so they could screw up at home, before they went off to college and screwed up there where nobody would notice it.

This is why I insisted my kids call home once a week. This is why any time they invited me to come visit, I go. So if there are any warning signs, I'm around to see them.

This is actually fantastic advice. They need to experiment under your roof. Its the kids who a tightly controlled who go off the rails at college.

how many kids who committed suicide do you actually know? the kid in question didn't go "off the rails". there is a world of difference between a kid who gets drunk, goes wild partying etc, and a kid who actually commits suicide.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I loosened the reins in 12th grade - so they could screw up at home, before they went off to college and screwed up there where nobody would notice it.

This is why I insisted my kids call home once a week. This is why any time they invited me to come visit, I go. So if there are any warning signs, I'm around to see them.

This is actually fantastic advice. They need to experiment under your roof. Its the kids who a tightly controlled who go off the rails at college.

Perhaps, but irrelevant to this discussion: read the article.

Anonymous wrote:This is why I loosened the reins in 12th grade - so they could screw up at home, before they went off to college and screwed up there where nobody would notice it.

This is why I insisted my kids call home once a week. This is why any time they invited me to come visit, I go. So if there are any warning signs, I'm around to see them.

This is actually fantastic advice. They need to experiment under your roof. Its the kids who a tightly controlled who go off the rails at college.

Anonymous wrote:What a sobering article. I think of some of parents at my kids 'top' private school who are constantly talking about their kids going to HYP, do or die. I don't even want to think about what goes on behind closed doors with their kids.

I also read the comments after the article. Though there were numerous psychological comments and one dissertation from a physician, the comment that carried the most weight with me said "I have always told my girls (from middle school and beyond) there is always a way out. You don't have to go back. Say the word and we can change it."

Wise words. I would also add that 'B' grades or even 'C' are not the end of the world. You will (not can) still be successful.

but the parents in the article were this way too, and it didn't help. The young lady in the article clearly had that opportunity and didn't want to take it.

I was doing further reading on the subject and stumbled on this article about kids who commit suicide because of college loan debt.

I would strongly suggest people refrain from nasty comments about how much, who, and why should anyone take loans. There are plenty of ugly comments interspersed in other threads.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/c-cryn-johannsen/student-loan-debt-suicides_b_1638972.html

What a sobering article. I think of some of parents at my kids 'top' private school who are constantly talking about their kids going to HYP, do or die. I don't even want to think about what goes on behind closed doors with their kids.

I also read the comments after the article. Though there were numerous psychological comments and one dissertation from a physician, the comment that carried the most weight with me said "I have always told my girls (from middle school and beyond) there is always a way out. You don't have to go back. Say the word and we can change it."

Wise words. I would also add that 'B' grades or even 'C' are not the end of the world. You will (not can) still be successful.

I feel/hope that I had the right level of "kids gotta make their own decisions and mistakes" starting early, like 4th grade being responsible for their homework or HS selecting their own classes and not hounding them about HW, grades, etc. When college time came around, I felt confident that they really owned this decision (where to attend, what to study) and felt I played a good supporting role to form good decision-making adults.

Probably just how Madison's parents felt. She was bright, athletic, well-liked. Her final day even seemed cheerful, typical. She had reached out to her parents about some depression, saw a counselor and talked with her dad about transferring. Still, in what seemed like a split decision, she jumps off a parking garage level to end her life. Inexplicably, she felt she had no choice. (As if the world would look down on her if she left Penn to go to Lehigh). It's horrifically sad.

I probably won't do anything differently with my college kids now (except insist harder that they seek help if they feel they need it). And pray.

Thank you for sharing the article and starting this thread. It is incredibly sad that a young student like Madison felt like she had no other choice but to end her life. The fact that the Lehigh coach happened to be in the area that night and speak to her a short time before was....I don't know what the right word is...not strange, but it seemed like that she missed her sign that she could be on the right track to transfer to Lehigh. He did the very best he was permitted to do.

A very popular Fairfax County high school student committed suicide a few years ago at Yale. Not sure if it ever made the news in the DC area. He really was the LAST person I would ever expect to end his life. He was a positive force of nature. My student went to school with him for six years (same graduation year). It is so important for young people to be able to talk about suicide and to know they are not alone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I loosened the reins in 12th grade - so they could screw up at home, before they went off to college and screwed up there where nobody would notice it.

This is why I insisted my kids call home once a week. This is why any time they invited me to come visit, I go. So if there are any warning signs, I'm around to see them.

sounds like a fool proof plan. clearly, nothing bad can happen to you.

o

From someone who graduated college not too long ago, I actually think it sounds like a good plan. The kids I knew in college who struggled the most generally had two types of parents.

1. The over bearing type who never let them do anything. They tended to go crazy and drink too much which can lead to many issues. These parents generally had very high expectations from their kids, and they were afraid to be honest if they were struggling in a class or having issues. Too afraid of dissapointing their parents.

2. The completely uninvolved parents. Kids couldn't reach out to parents for help because parents didn't really care

So yeah, I actually think pp has a good idea.

the girls' parents do not appear to fit either type. she also wasn't the type who struggled i.e. the type that one would recognize from a distance as struggling. so your insight about kids who struggle does not even apply (even if it were accurate). and am not saying PP has a bad idea, but things are not that simple. very bad things can happen to good kids and good parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why I loosened the reins in 12th grade - so they could screw up at home, before they went off to college and screwed up there where nobody would notice it.

This is why I insisted my kids call home once a week. This is why any time they invited me to come visit, I go. So if there are any warning signs, I'm around to see them.

sounds like a fool proof plan. clearly, nothing bad can happen to you.

o

From someone who graduated college not too long ago, I actually think it sounds like a good plan. The kids I knew in college who struggled the most generally had two types of parents.

1. The over bearing type who never let them do anything. They tended to go crazy and drink too much which can lead to many issues. These parents generally had very high expectations from their kids, and they were afraid to be honest if they were struggling in a class or having issues. Too afraid of dissapointing their parents.

2. The completely uninvolved parents. Kids couldn't reach out to parents for help because parents didn't really care

So yeah, I actually think pp has a good idea.

Anonymous wrote:This is why I loosened the reins in 12th grade - so they could screw up at home, before they went off to college and screwed up there where nobody would notice it.

This is why I insisted my kids call home once a week. This is why any time they invited me to come visit, I go. So if there are any warning signs, I'm around to see them.

sounds like a fool proof plan. clearly, nothing bad can happen to you.

This is why I loosened the reins in 12th grade - so they could screw up at home, before they went off to college and screwed up there where nobody would notice it.

This is why I insisted my kids call home once a week. This is why any time they invited me to come visit, I go. So if there are any warning signs, I'm around to see them.

Random violence, stupid drunken antics, suicide. I know it can happen anywhere, any time to anyone. But I have a sense of anxiety about getting the dreaded phone call when my kids are away at college.

Here's a sad article mostly about one of the 5 suicide victims in 6 months at Penn.
http://www.phillymag.com/articles/penn-suicides-madison-holleran/