Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the good advice. I guess the part I'm sort of struggling with is how to bring this up now, after essentially taking Dora's side for the past few years in all these tumultuous interactions between her and Nora. Like if I change my tune so suddenly, Dora might accuse me of taking Nora's side. And yes, I know there are not really right/wrong "sides" when it comes to this sort of thing -- it's more about perspective. After I talked with Nora, my perspective on a lot of these interactions started to shift, and instead of seeing through the lens of "oh that's just Nora acting like she knows how to do XYZ better than Dora" I now see how Dora's role in these interactions is more a reflection of her own state of mind, i.e. her depression. Dora knows that her sister and I talk frequently, so it wouldn't be too hard for her to figure out that Nora and I spoke about the latest incident. And at the same time, Nora is also worried about Dora -- she just doesn't feel like she can talk to Dora about it, because Dora gets defensive so quickly when Nora tries. So I don't really feel like I can avoid the fact that I've talked with Nora about this, you know?

Don't make it about the incidents. Make it about the fact that you've noticed that she doesn't seem happy.

Telling someone with depression "You need to get your shit together now" sounds about as helpful as telling her she needs to learn to play the violin now. I can't think of something less helpful and supportive.

If you are concerned about this person, tell her. Tell her you think she seems depressed. Ask her if therapy would be helpful, or taking an anti-depressant.

This isn't about you and your need to see her get her shit together.

Thanks for the good advice. I guess the part I'm sort of struggling with is how to bring this up now, after essentially taking Dora's side for the past few years in all these tumultuous interactions between her and Nora. Like if I change my tune so suddenly, Dora might accuse me of taking Nora's side. And yes, I know there are not really right/wrong "sides" when it comes to this sort of thing -- it's more about perspective. After I talked with Nora, my perspective on a lot of these interactions started to shift, and instead of seeing through the lens of "oh that's just Nora acting like she knows how to do XYZ better than Dora" I now see how Dora's role in these interactions is more a reflection of her own state of mind, i.e. her depression. Dora knows that her sister and I talk frequently, so it wouldn't be too hard for her to figure out that Nora and I spoke about the latest incident. And at the same time, Nora is also worried about Dora -- she just doesn't feel like she can talk to Dora about it, because Dora gets defensive so quickly when Nora tries. So I don't really feel like I can avoid the fact that I've talked with Nora about this, you know?

I agree with the above but instead of asking how she's doing I would say "Can I help you by doing this particular thing?"

Offering vague help is too easy to brush off. With my super close friends I just barge in. "Jenna, you're clearly having a hard time. Put on some pants and I'll be over tomorrow at 10am. We're going to do your laundry and wash all your dishes. You're going to take a shower while I empty all your garbages." And then I show up and we do all that.

You don't give her an ultimatum and you don't diagnose her. You tell her, "I've noticed X, Y, and Z, which make me worry that you might be having a hard time right now. How are you doing?" Then you listen. You might ask her when she last saw her doctor. You might suggest that a professional therapist could help her cope. But mostly, you tell her what you see and you tell her that you are worried about her. And you listen.

I grew up very close with a pair of sisters (our families were best friends, we went on vacations together since we were babies, etc etc) ...fast-forward 30+ years, and we are still as close as any blood-relatives, and I am lucky enough to live in the same town as one of the sisters (let's call her Dora). Dora and I have young kids the same age, so we get together several times a month for playdates and just general hanging-out and merry-making. Dora and I have also helped each other get through depressive episodes in our own lives, and right now we're helping each other slog through these early years of parenting (let's just say we both have somewhat strong-willed children!) -- so there's not much we can hide from each other.

Over the past couple of years, Dora and her sister (let's call her Nora) have had increasingly tense interactions. Nora is older, so has been married longer and has older kids, and has a tendency to sound like she's the expert on all things parent-related -- of course she means well, but I think we can all relate to how grating it can be to have someone in our lives who seems to so effortlessly have all their shit together. Dora and Nora have really only seen each other at big family events (like weddings) recently, which are fun but of course are also high-stress endeavors (especially when you factor in Nora's older kids being so well-behaved and Dora's younger kids having their "moments," and all the sister STUFF that can churn up). Since I am closer to Dora, I tend to see all things from her perspective when she's coping with the fall-out from these stressful family gatherings. But after this most recent time a couple of months ago (which I was there for), I reached out to Nora because I was starting to worry about Dora. And Nora told me she was also worried about Dora, that she thought Dora was in another depression, and that since we are so close, she was really hoping I could help her get some help.

Now, I am no stranger to depression. I've had the (mis)fortune of finding out for myself what it feels like to go over the edge, and the scariest part of going into a depression (for me) is how long it can take to recognize what's happening, and how quickly things can go from manageable to NOT -- even when you think you have a handle on yourself. My partner also copes with depression, and it took about two years before he got help for his most recent episode (one year of me watching and wondering if what I was seeing was actual depression versus just life being stressful, and then another year of me asking him to get help before finally telling him to get help or I would leave and take the kid). With my partner, I remember saying these exact words: "You need to get your shit together. I will help you, if you want, but this needs to happen NOW." But I can't say that to Dora. Can I?

Sorry for the long post, but would really like to handle this sensitively. Thanks.