Anonymous wrote:How is lecturing "army style" helpful for this type of kid. I'm so sick of this dinosaur way of thinking. I see this everywhere my kids go outside of school. Sounds like every damn sports dad that I know.

OP here.

I am looking for a psychologist because I need someone to run interference with the "educational specialist psychiatrist pharma industrial complex.". A closed system has emerged where one is pressured by so-called education specialists at schools into expensive neuropsych tests of questionable value for the slightest deviation from the norm. I feel like an unlettered inmate trying explain in a pencil written brief, without knowing the legal jargon, that they've got the wrong person.

My kid is doing fine thank you very much. He has crappy handwriting but to get the "accommodation" of a keyboard or more time for him to scrawl his hieroglyphics, we need an "assessment.". And his locker, horrors, is a mess and he could give a damn, as he explained in slightly nicer language to his teacher, and he often forgets his homework. Apparently this means he may have "executive" issues. What a joke.

I need a mediator who agrees with me that the current way in which developmentally appropriate male behavior is pathologized is a moral tragedy but who can say so more nicely, in the appropriate edu-gibberish and make practical suggestions in a way that does not piss off the school.

Damn right I have an opinion and am looking for someone who agrees with me. If I have learned one thing as a parent it is trust your,instincts and take the conventional wisdom with a dump,truck of salt.

How is lecturing "army style" helpful for this type of kid. I'm so sick of this dinosaur way of thinking. I see this everywhere my kids go outside of school. Sounds like every damn sports dad that I know.

I'm with you OP. The school system castrates boys who aren't good drones and organized secretaries. Occasionally you get a teacher who doesn't believe in drugging boys with too much energy. Instead he/she will give them more exercise, urge them to eat healthy whole foods, lecture them army style about expectations, give corrective feedback as needed and give plenty of positive reinforcement for all the good things he/she sees. It works in most cases. Amazing. You'd think it would catch on. Even more amazing this style probably works well for most girls too.

Yes, I know medication can work wonders for some kids, but even Keith Conners, ADHD expert, is appalled at how many kids are being drugged. Heck even the guy who created Adderall is all WTF?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP your statements got under my skin. It's like you're of two minds.

First, that schools are "feminized" (which sounded disparaging) and not accepting of what you seem to consider typical of boy behavior.

On the flip side, you're asking for recommendations for a psychologist.

I don't mean to be on a tangent, but either you believe that your child's behavior warrants a visit with a psychologist or not.

If the problem is school- and occasionally it is (truly, we changed schools once for the better), do you have an option of a different school? Perhaps a less "feminized" environment such as an "all boys" school?

I don't at all see the OP's statements as contradictory. If you've read Raising Cain you'll have a good understanding of what s/he is saying. You can explore testing in order to better understand your child's learning style (and to rule out potential diagnoses that school personnel might suggest) without believing there is something clinically "wrong" with your child. A great deal of research suggests that boys, in particular boys who are young for their grade level, may be misunderstood at best and misdiagnosed at worst. In fact, the APA recently published a major study suggesting that girls make higher grades than boys across all subjects.

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/04/girls-grades.aspx

Unless you believe girls are inherently smarter than boys, it's quite reasonable to think something is amiss in our schools. (I don't love the OP's use of "feminized" but think Raising Cain might use the term.)

OP, I don't know of anyone local who would meet your criteria but I will follow this thread in the hope that someone else does. All-boys schools are certainly something to think about.

Hmm... well, I'm all in favor of ruling things out and will check out the book. I hate seeing young kids misdiagnosed because of intense personalities or immaturity or learning differences. I have a son (seven) who is very emotionally intense. He's had a few goofy/disruptive notes from teacher, but it's gotten so much better as he gets older. Ten seems old to have significant issues with classroom expectations, but I may eat those words in a few years (maybe that is when the hormones start their work).

OP, I'm not sure what the after school schedule is like, but we selected activities that promote executive functioning such as chess and martial arts. I cannot over emphasize the benefits when it comes to self discipline and impulse control. It doesn't answer your question about an educational psychologist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are looking for a referral for an educational psychologist, in DC or MD, who has real expertise in boys and their developmental differences. Books such as "Raising Cain" and "The Minds of Boys" have really resonated with us. Our 10-year old son suffers from shpilkes (ants in pants) and apparently this is no longer considered socially acceptable. We need someone to help us navigate/play zone defense in the feminized halls of American elementary school education.

Also, we are in the "no drugs" camp so prefer someone who is like-minded.

We would be grateful for any recommendations.

I don't have any referrals, but I would considering looking WAY outside the DC area. There is a completely different mentality here....boys are feminized a great deal in any kind of hyper-competitive area like ours. sit down, sit still, don't talk, be mature, don't act silly, stop touching.....blah blah blah

I would suggest researching doctors in Texas, Colorado, Southern California, most mountain states where "men are men". You will be more apt to find doctors who understand what you're trying to achieve.

Now I'm going to sit back and wait for the backlash...but I am hoping it won't happen

Those were the days

Psychologists are trained to work with individuals or families. It's a bit much to expect them to reform American education too. They can help give "strategies" to teachers, but they aren't going to tell the teacher she's doing a bad job.

That said, there are lots of active boys, and not all of them, at age 10, are having substantial difficulties in the classroom. If OP's child is, I think OP is right to consider getting help. I just think OP needs to be open to the possibility that this child might not just be a boy, but might be somewhat outside the norm of boys.

Anonymous wrote:Only backlash you'll get from me, a mom of two boys who was/is a tomboy herself if the label of "feminized." The highly formalized super controlled environment is to me a capitalist tool- become a good little worker drone, and learn to accept the rules at a young age. I don't see it as male/female but powerful/subjugated.

Yes, correct. I should not have repeated OP's use of "feminized". I agree with powerful/subjugated.

That said, I still think you will be hard pressed to find a psych in the DC area who doesnt conform to the pressures of our area schools.

Anonymous wrote:OP, as a parent of a boy who is very active and impulsive, I feel your pain, so to speak, but you sound like you are coming into this with such strong biases and such a well-developed agenda that I don't think you're going to get much value out of any psychologist. You have to have a somewhat open mind to take advantage of therapy.

Lots of outdoor exercise (like, at least two solid hours per day) is my best tip. I'd try private school if you feel strongly that you can't make it work. But psychologists don't play "zone defense" in schools - they just don't.

+1

Anonymous wrote:OP your statements got under my skin. It's like you're of two minds.

First, that schools are "feminized" (which sounded disparaging) and not accepting of what you seem to consider typical of boy behavior.

On the flip side, you're asking for recommendations for a psychologist.

I don't mean to be on a tangent, but either you believe that your child's behavior warrants a visit with a psychologist or not.

If the problem is school- and occasionally it is (truly, we changed schools once for the better), do you have an option of a different school? Perhaps a less "feminized" environment such as an "all boys" school?

I don't at all see the OP's statements as contradictory. If you've read Raising Cain you'll have a good understanding of what s/he is saying. You can explore testing in order to better understand your child's learning style (and to rule out potential diagnoses that school personnel might suggest) without believing there is something clinically "wrong" with your child. A great deal of research suggests that boys, in particular boys who are young for their grade level, may be misunderstood at best and misdiagnosed at worst. In fact, the APA recently published a major study suggesting that girls make higher grades than boys across all subjects.

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2014/04/girls-grades.aspx

Unless you believe girls are inherently smarter than boys, it's quite reasonable to think something is amiss in our schools. (I don't love the OP's use of "feminized" but think Raising Cain might use the term.)

OP, I don't know of anyone local who would meet your criteria but I will follow this thread in the hope that someone else does. All-boys schools are certainly something to think about.

OP, as a parent of a boy who is very active and impulsive, I feel your pain, so to speak, but you sound like you are coming into this with such strong biases and such a well-developed agenda that I don't think you're going to get much value out of any psychologist. You have to have a somewhat open mind to take advantage of therapy.

Lots of outdoor exercise (like, at least two solid hours per day) is my best tip. I'd try private school if you feel strongly that you can't make it work. But psychologists don't play "zone defense" in schools - they just don't.

OP your statements got under my skin. It's like you're of two minds.

First, that schools are "feminized" (which sounded disparaging) and not accepting of what you seem to consider typical of boy behavior.

On the flip side, you're asking for recommendations for a psychologist.

I don't mean to be on a tangent, but either you believe that your child's behavior warrants a visit with a psychologist or not.

If the problem is school- and occasionally it is (truly, we changed schools once for the better), do you have an option of a different school? Perhaps a less "feminized" environment such as an "all boys" school?

Anonymous wrote:Only backlash you'll get from me, a mom of two boys who was/is a tomboy herself if the label of "feminized." The highly formalized super controlled environment is to me a capitalist tool- become a good little worker drone, and learn to accept the rules at a young age. I don't see it as male/female but powerful/subjugated.

The hyper-conformity of expectations of children in this area, particularly in well-to-do NW DC and Montgomery County, puts a lot of pressure on parents and children alike. Whatever their gender. That said, the lop-sided incidence of "ADHD" diagnoses among boys suggests that all is not well in the classroom. In some of my kids' classes, more than half the boys are being treated for "ADHD." Can't be. It is Orwellian.

Only backlash you'll get from me, a mom of two boys who was/is a tomboy herself if the label of "feminized." The highly formalized super controlled environment is to me a capitalist tool- become a good little worker drone, and learn to accept the rules at a young age. I don't see it as male/female but powerful/subjugated.

Anonymous wrote:We are looking for a referral for an educational psychologist, in DC or MD, who has real expertise in boys and their developmental differences. Books such as "Raising Cain" and "The Minds of Boys" have really resonated with us. Our 10-year old son suffers from shpilkes (ants in pants) and apparently this is no longer considered socially acceptable. We need someone to help us navigate/play zone defense in the feminized halls of American elementary school education.

Also, we are in the "no drugs" camp so prefer someone who is like-minded.

We would be grateful for any recommendations.

I don't have any referrals, but I would considering looking WAY outside the DC area. There is a completely different mentality here....boys are feminized a great deal in any kind of hyper-competitive area like ours. sit down, sit still, don't talk, be mature, don't act silly, stop touching.....blah blah blah

I would suggest researching doctors in Texas, Colorado, Southern California, most mountain states where "men are men". You will be more apt to find doctors who understand what you're trying to achieve.

Now I'm going to sit back and wait for the backlash...but I am hoping it won't happen

We are looking for a referral for an educational psychologist, in DC or MD, who has real expertise in boys and their developmental differences. Books such as "Raising Cain" and "The Minds of Boys" have really resonated with us. Our 10-year old son suffers from shpilkes (ants in pants) and apparently this is no longer considered socially acceptable. We need someone to help us navigate/play zone defense in the feminized halls of American elementary school education.

Also, we are in the "no drugs" camp so prefer someone who is like-minded.

We would be grateful for any recommendations.