Anonymous wrote:My son is a good solid student cracked just over 2000 on his SAT (2060) but was hoping to be in the 2100-2200 mark. Has a 31 on the ACT. He will take it again but this seems to be his range. He had his heart set on a particular ivy but both his adviser and he do not see it happening. He has talked to him at length about the little Ivies (adviser at school is originally from NY) so he is very familiar with those schools. We are not as familiar with them however, but he said they are prestigious carry a lot of weight after graduation and are going to give him that quintessential New England college experience he is seeking. Some schools he has suggested are Williams, Wesleyan, CT. College, Amherst, Hamilton and Bowdoin. What do you think? Certainly they do not have the cache of an ivy but would you say are more prestigious than a good top university? As an example UNC, Wake Forest, etc.....he is confused and so are we! Any input would be great, thank you.

I agree with everyone that all you are doing is looking at prestige which is a terrible way to pick a school. You lists schools that have very little in common. I would add that these schools will be difficult for him to get into with his stats.

You are confused because you are going at ti all wrong.

Anonymous wrote:OP,

My son will start a SLAC in the fall. Your son will likely really have a stronger sense of where he wants to go after your campus visits. He should, if he really knows where he wants to attend as you approach the final leg of the application process, discuss the pro's and con's of Early Decision.

I do not understand the culture's obsession with Ivies. I just don't. What matters out in the world is not the degree, but the combination of skills and likability and luck along the way. I've been underwhelmed by some Ivy colleagues. In fact some of the most impressive people I've met as an adult are folks who did SLAC undergrad then Ivy grad. What I detest is Ivy snobbery among some Ivy alum -- emphasis on some. It can be insidious.

It's only a sub-culture that is obsessed with Ivies. A lot of Ivy grads will tell you that they recoil when asked where they went to school, because they know that even the manner in which they respond will be subjected to after-the-fact scrutiny and that all sorts of assumptions may follow.

In some instances, it is only the name of the school that matters to students/families making a decision. In others, an Ivy may have a program that a SLAC does not offer. Location is also a factor; apart from Cornell and Dartmouth, the Ivies tend to be more accessible by public transit than many well-known SLACs. You can easily get a flight or train to most, whereas it may be a long trip by bus and/or car to get from this area to many SLACs.

OP,

My son will start a SLAC in the fall. Your son will likely really have a stronger sense of where he wants to go after your campus visits. He should, if he really knows where he wants to attend as you approach the final leg of the application process, discuss the pro's and con's of Early Decision.

I do not understand the culture's obsession with Ivies. I just don't. What matters out in the world is not the degree, but the combination of skills and likability and luck along the way. I've been underwhelmed by some Ivy colleagues. In fact some of the most impressive people I've met as an adult are folks who did SLAC undergrad then Ivy grad. What I detest is Ivy snobbery among some Ivy alum -- emphasis on some. It can be insidious.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thought Wesleyan , Williams & Amherst have been known as the Little Three for decades. What's the point of arguing which school incrementally better, when all offer slightly different experiences, which will be better for different people for different reasons.

Exactly. I visited and was admitted to all three, but went to an Ivy that I didn't think I could pass up attending.

Williams is the most rural. Loved that place and thought it was the quintessential New England liberal arts college. Perfect little college town. Might make some people stir crazy in the winter, though.

Wesleyan is the most liberal/artsy of the three. At the time it clearly seemed the most diverse. Also has a great campus but the town, at least at that time, was a bit depressed.

Amherst has the best location and enjoys being part of a college consortium where students can take classes at other area schools, including Mount Holyoke, U. Mass, Hampshire and Smith. For whatever reason, though, I liked it the least. People there were less outgoing and friendly than at Williams and Wesleyan.

I attended one of the colleges in the consortium, and I have to say the exchange thing is a little overrated. Most kids take 1-2, or in many cases zero, classes at the other colleges because the commutes can be long. Also, most of the 5 colleges have so many of their own interesting courses that you will leave after 4 years regretting that you didn't get to take all of the fascinating classes at your own school, let alone at the other 4 schools.

I too found Amherst a little unwelcoming, although that was ages ago and it's probably changed since then.

Anonymous wrote:Thought Wesleyan , Williams & Amherst have been known as the Little Three for decades. What's the point of arguing which school incrementally better, when all offer slightly different experiences, which will be better for different people for different reasons.

Exactly. I visited and was admitted to all three, but went to an Ivy that I didn't think I could pass up attending.

Williams is the most rural. Loved that place and thought it was the quintessential New England liberal arts college. Perfect little college town. Might make some people stir crazy in the winter, though.

Wesleyan is the most liberal/artsy of the three. At the time it clearly seemed the most diverse. Also has a great campus but the town, at least at that time, was a bit depressed.

Amherst has the best location and enjoys being part of a college consortium where students can take classes at other area schools, including Mount Holyoke, U. Mass, Hampshire and Smith. For whatever reason, though, I liked it the least. People there were less outgoing and friendly than at Williams and Wesleyan.

From the description, likely need to be looking at the next tier down from the top 5-6 SLACS, at least from the DC area, Pomona, Midd, Bowdoin, Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore as difficult to get into or more difficult than some of the Ivys (Cornell, Dartmouth, Penn). Wesleyan a bit easier and some schools locally send hordes there (GDS, Sidwell) but they will wait list anyone they don't think is likely to come (my DS was admitted to P and Y and wait listed at Wesleyan for instance). OTher schools to think about with those scores for a larger university experience include Wash U, Rice, Emory,

Thought Wesleyan , Williams & Amherst have been known as the Little Three for decades. What's the point of arguing which school incrementally better, when all offer slightly different experiences, which will be better for different people for different reasons.

Anonymous wrote:I think you guys are living in the past. Weslyan is a very selective school. I graduated high school in the mid 2000s, and I have a friend who got into Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, and Cornell but rejected from Wesylan.

I doubt anyone would deny that Wesleyan (sp) is selective, it just isn't on par with Harvard - the lower end (25%) of Harvard's SAT and ACT profile is about the same as the upper end (75%) for Amherst and Wesleyan.

I think you guys are living in the past. Weslyan is a very selective school. I graduated high school in the mid 2000s, and I have a friend who got into Northwestern, Johns Hopkins, and Cornell but rejected from Wesylan.

Wesleyan is a fine school, but it is in a different (lower) tier in comparison to Amherst and Williams. If you are trying to compare Amherst and Williams to Harvard and Yale, Wesleyan would be comparable to Vanderbilt, for example.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/spp+25

The SLAC experience is, of course, VERY different from the National University experience, so I think its a bit of apples and oranges. The top SLAC's also include schools on the West Coast (Pomona, Claremont McKenna), South (W&L and Davidson) and Mid-West (Grinnell and Carleton).

A couple of observations regarding prestige. By definition SLACs are "small" they just aren't as well known as the elite National Universities. Among academics and college counselors the SLACs are well known, but in the "real world" graduates of SLAC's spend a lot of time explaining to others what a great school their SLAC is.

Second, I don't have statistics to back this up, but may observation is that SLACs are more appealing to girls than boys. My DS is past the college stage already, but VERY few of his friends had any interest in SLACs whereas girls that they knew went to almost every school mentioned in this thread. I've wondered what type of boy gravitates toward the SLAC environment and suppose it might be the more artsy sensitive boys. In any case, my guess is that it is easier for a boy to get into a top SLAC than it is for a girl just based on demand.

Amherst and Williams are a tier above the rest with very strong programs that a lot of ivies DO NOT provide for undergraduates.

Sorry Wesleyan is NOT in that category. Keep dreaming.

I agree with the PP that you should be chasing the school that is best for your son, not the school that you think carries the most prestige.

The parallel to Harvard/Yale/Princeton would be what's called the Little 3 - Williams/Amherst/Weslyan. These are three of the best liberal arts colleges in the nation, and very difficult to get into. I would add to that group Middlebury and Swarthmore.

There's no real definition of what constitutes the "Little Ivies," but the closest approximation would probably be the NESCAC schools. However, outside of the ones I listed above, the remainder of the NESCAC, while still outstanding schools, are lower ranked.

All of these schools have different personalities and cultures, though. If you're looking for highly selective schools where your son will be challenged, these are all good ones, but you need to visit them to find the right one for him.

There are other highly selective schools outside of New England. Davidson is an excellent school, and he might find southern culture and weather more appealing.

You should be looking for a place he will thrive, not the one that carries the most cache.

Confused. You're chasing prestige? Shouldn't you be searching for an institution with a course of study that interests your son? It almost sounds to me as if you place more value on the name on the diploma than you do getting a good education. What does he want to study? What schools have good programs in what he wants to study? There's your answer. Stop focusing on cache.

My son is a good solid student cracked just over 2000 on his SAT (2060) but was hoping to be in the 2100-2200 mark. Has a 31 on the ACT. He will take it again but this seems to be his range. He had his heart set on a particular ivy but both his adviser and he do not see it happening. He has talked to him at length about the little Ivies (adviser at school is originally from NY) so he is very familiar with those schools. We are not as familiar with them however, but he said they are prestigious carry a lot of weight after graduation and are going to give him that quintessential New England college experience he is seeking. Some schools he has suggested are Williams, Wesleyan, CT. College, Amherst, Hamilton and Bowdoin. What do you think? Certainly they do not have the cache of an ivy but would you say are more prestigious than a good top university? As an example UNC, Wake Forest, etc.....he is confused and so are we! Any input would be great, thank you.