Anonymous wrote:
I think there is a clue here on how to help her. You mention that she has totally changed, but I don't think so. The demons that she was temporarily successful at quelling through years of superior performance and achievement have resurfaced. She is still pulling allnighters in pursuit of a goal, it's just that the goal isn't collecting masters degrees, it's collecting offspring. You knew her then -- try to understand how she hasn't changed, how maybe these issues were overlooked or even supported previously. See if that gives you some insight into helping her recognize them and address them now. The problem isn't her caretaking -- the problem is how her motivation process doesn't respond well to external developments, which means there is something internal that is steering her into taking unreasonable positions. I would bet that this internal derailment process has been there all along, but previously it manifested in more socially acceptable ways (or she was more successful in channeling it into approved outcomes).

Good analysis.

Talk to her again.
Depression is damaging her willpower to lay out a schedule and discipline her kids, and have any kind of plan or energy to organize. What does she think will happen with more children? How does she envision her daily life? Ask her if she is happy living like this. Accompany her to the doctor, and therapist.

Talk to the husband again.
Does he recognize the symptoms of depression in his wife? Does he like coming home to a filthy house? Does he want to help his wife or is he checking out of the marriage? Will he leave her and the kids? He can't have a great home life if he doesn't fight for it.

I would push a little more.

Anonymous wrote: I love her very much, and this person seems very far removed from the woman who graduated summa cum laude from a top 10 university, and has 2 masters. She just totally changed after the birth of her first child 3 years ago.

I think there is a clue here on how to help her. You mention that she has totally changed, but I don't think so. The demons that she was temporarily successful at quelling through years of superior performance and achievement have resurfaced. She is still pulling allnighters in pursuit of a goal, it's just that the goal isn't collecting masters degrees, it's collecting offspring. You knew her then -- try to understand how she hasn't changed, how maybe these issues were overlooked or even supported previously. See if that gives you some insight into helping her recognize them and address them now. The problem isn't her caretaking -- the problem is how her motivation process doesn't respond well to external developments, which means there is something internal that is steering her into taking unreasonable positions. I would bet that this internal derailment process has been there all along, but previously it manifested in more socially acceptable ways (or she was more successful in channeling it into approved outcomes).

You need to talk to her husband again and ask him (since he is a lawyer), what would CPS do if they walked in and found the kids in that situation?

Remind him that women with mental health issues often do harm to the children if they don't get care.

Let him know that the next time you stop by and you see your nieces/nephews being neglected, you will call CPS. It's your duty and if he tries to guilt trip you, well then I guess he's a dumb lawyer because a CPS investigation (depending on what they found) could affect his job.

This was my former sister in law. In pursuit of #4, she miscarried 4 times and gave up. Her girls got older, her husband hired a weekly house cleaner. She was working part-time by the youngest entering 1st grade. They survived.

Well, if you've talked to her, your parents and DH I'm not sure what else you can do directly.

Does she have a best friend?

It sounds like she's the type-A person who has never fallen apart before and has no idea what to do or how to ask for help. She might be more open to the idea (of getting help) if she knew others like her were in the same boat. Does she have mom friends?

Why don't they have a regular nap schedule and bed time? That would solve a lot of problems. Maybe you can drop off some sleep books for her.

parents think I'm making it up-they don't live here, and she is able to keep up a good front for them. I know she's depressed, but she won't admit it or get help.

She is clearly depressed.

What does your family say?

Backstory: my sister is in her early 30's, with 2 kids under 3, pregnant with her third. She wants 4, despite the fact that she is totally drowning now, to the point that I'm concerned about her kids. Her husband is a law partner and is gone constantly; she stays at home. Kids have no nap schedule, no bedtime (she lets them stay up until they fall asleep downstairs, then takes them up), which I have no issue with in theory (well, I wouldn't do it, but I know some people make it work), but in reality it's a hot mess-constant meltdowns and her in tears because her kids are screaming and crying at 2 in the afternoon when she's out to lunch. Her house is FILTHY, but she won't hire help because she stays at home and feels like she should be able to take care of it. I go over to her house frequently, and always find the kids in desperate need of a diaper change, a nose-blow, cupboards empty. Gentle enquiries as to this result in her saying that DC1 or DC2 was crying and she didn't feel up to going to the store-she would just order something for dinner. Again, not totally bad in theory, but she's doing this all the time, AND wants to add 2 more kids to the mix. She admits she sometimes feels overwhelmed, but she's going for 4 "if it kills her" because that's her dream. She refuses to have more than a 2 year age gap between the kids, and so far has been successful. I feel like she is on a path to crazy town, and am genuinely worried about her, and her kids. I've reached out to her husband, but he doesn't really seem plugged into the family (he's never given the kids a bath on his own!). This is all so removed from my life I don't know how to help her. I try to talk to her, be her shoulder, but I'm really at a point that I don't think she should have more kids until she can get her sh!t together. What is the best way to talk to her without upsetting her further, and the best way to help her? I love her very much, and this person seems very far removed from the woman who graduated summa cum laude from a top 10 university, and has 2 masters. She just totally changed after the birth of her first child 3 years ago. Thoughts?