Anonymous
04/29/2014 07:30
Subject: Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
Anonymous wrote:Not me personally, but I used to work with an attorney who was part time at big law, who basically got paid per hours billed. So if she wasn't billing (no deal going on), she didn't come in at all. No idea on the exact numbers unfortunately.
That is contract. Totally different. Part time is percentage of income based on agreed upon percentage of work, get prorated leave, and full benefits if the agreed upon amount is above a certain amount. 60-80% is normal for this arrangement. I did it for a year, and they were great, but I hated the job when it was part time. Went to a reasonable full time government job instead.
Anonymous
04/29/2014 00:44
Subject: Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
PP again - also know couple senior partners at small firms who are almost retiring, who gets paid on combination of hourly rate for time they billed + % or 'commission' on 'their' clients bill.
Anonymous
04/29/2014 00:41
Subject: Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
Not me personally, but I used to work with an attorney who was part time at big law, who basically got paid per hours billed. So if she wasn't billing (no deal going on), she didn't come in at all. No idea on the exact numbers unfortunately.
Anonymous
04/28/2014 23:34
Subject: Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
OP here. Thanks, 20:16 and 18:16!
Anonymous
04/28/2014 20:16
Subject: Re:Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
OP I work for a large NY based law firm in the DC office. We have a number of women who are PT. They're paid 80% of the salary for their respective class year (e.g., a 6th year is paid at 80% of 250,000/year base). We don't have an hours requirement, but you're expected to work four days a week with one day off. If something comes up on your day off you will be expected to do it, but the women I know who are part time do work less than 100% of the hours of the other associates.
I think if hours were to become a problem in either direction and were too high or too low it would be discussed. Not sure about how health care is paid. I would guess the firm would only subsidize 80% of what it subsidizes for full time associates.
I think if hours were to become a problem in either direction and were too high or too low it would be discussed. Not sure about how health care is paid. I would guess the firm would only subsidize 80% of what it subsidizes for full time associates.
Anonymous
04/28/2014 18:16
Subject: Re:Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
Do you work for a large law firm, small law firm, the government, a corporate legal department, a nonprofit organization, or some other entity?
Counsel to/for an association.
How many hours a week do you work? What percentage of full time does your employer consider that (e.g. 80% of full time,50% of full time?
~24-30 hours, depending on the week. Three days.
Do you get paid as a W2 employee or a 1099 contractor?
W2.
Do you get paid a fixed annual salary? If so, does your part time salary correspond pro rata to the salary you’d earn if you worked full time? E.g. you work 80% of full time and get 80% of the salary you’d earn if you worked full time.
Yes, fixed annual salary at 60% of compensation.
If you get a fixed salary and work extra hours some weeks to meet client needs, do you get paid for this time? No, not in money. But I do get comp-time/extra vacation time equal to whatever extra I worked. I never ask/put in for it unless I worked 4 or more hours on one of my off-days - usually I just call it the price of being a professional. If so, how? E.g., comp time, additional pay at negotiated hourly rate, reflected in discretionary end-of-year bonus, etc.
Do you get paid for every hour worked, without regard to whether those hours are billable vs. non-billable? If so, how many years experience do you have and at what hourly rate do you get paid?
Yes.
Do you get paid per billable hour worked with no compensation for non-billable hours? If so, what is your per-billable-hour pay rate and how does it compare (as a percentage) to your client billing rate?
See above.
Do you get paid a percentage of revenue billed and collected? If so, what percentage to you get? Does the percentage vary according to who generated the client?
N/A
What, if any, health insurance benefit you do get and how does it compare to what full time employees of your organization get?
Full health benefits but I don't use them as I'm on DH's employer's plan.
Are you eligible to participate in your employer’s 401(K) plan? If so, do you get the same employer contribution (as a percentage of income) that you received before going part time?
Yes and yes.
How much, if any, paid vacation and sick leave do you get and how does this compare to what full time employees of your organization get?
It is pro-rated, 60% of paid leave and 60% of paid holidays.
Do you feel fairly compensated?
Mostly yes, but I definitely work more than 60% time. I think I have likely lost out on some bonus and pay increase money over the years simply because I am not as visible as my colleagues, but that doesn't bother me.
What, if anything, would you like to change about your compensation or other aspects of your part time arrangement?
None.
How satisfied are you with your part time attorney job?
Very.
Counsel to/for an association.
How many hours a week do you work? What percentage of full time does your employer consider that (e.g. 80% of full time,50% of full time?
~24-30 hours, depending on the week. Three days.
Do you get paid as a W2 employee or a 1099 contractor?
W2.
Do you get paid a fixed annual salary? If so, does your part time salary correspond pro rata to the salary you’d earn if you worked full time? E.g. you work 80% of full time and get 80% of the salary you’d earn if you worked full time.
Yes, fixed annual salary at 60% of compensation.
If you get a fixed salary and work extra hours some weeks to meet client needs, do you get paid for this time? No, not in money. But I do get comp-time/extra vacation time equal to whatever extra I worked. I never ask/put in for it unless I worked 4 or more hours on one of my off-days - usually I just call it the price of being a professional. If so, how? E.g., comp time, additional pay at negotiated hourly rate, reflected in discretionary end-of-year bonus, etc.
Do you get paid for every hour worked, without regard to whether those hours are billable vs. non-billable? If so, how many years experience do you have and at what hourly rate do you get paid?
Yes.
Do you get paid per billable hour worked with no compensation for non-billable hours? If so, what is your per-billable-hour pay rate and how does it compare (as a percentage) to your client billing rate?
See above.
Do you get paid a percentage of revenue billed and collected? If so, what percentage to you get? Does the percentage vary according to who generated the client?
N/A
What, if any, health insurance benefit you do get and how does it compare to what full time employees of your organization get?
Full health benefits but I don't use them as I'm on DH's employer's plan.
Are you eligible to participate in your employer’s 401(K) plan? If so, do you get the same employer contribution (as a percentage of income) that you received before going part time?
Yes and yes.
How much, if any, paid vacation and sick leave do you get and how does this compare to what full time employees of your organization get?
It is pro-rated, 60% of paid leave and 60% of paid holidays.
Do you feel fairly compensated?
Mostly yes, but I definitely work more than 60% time. I think I have likely lost out on some bonus and pay increase money over the years simply because I am not as visible as my colleagues, but that doesn't bother me.
What, if anything, would you like to change about your compensation or other aspects of your part time arrangement?
None.
How satisfied are you with your part time attorney job?
Very.
Anonymous
04/28/2014 17:47
Subject: Re:Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
Anonymous wrote:It is pretty straightforward -- at most places, your salary gets reduced equivalent to the amount you are working. So, if you work 60 percent of expected billable hours, you get 60 percent pay. Most places will make it up to you with a bonus if you go beyond your billable total. Or you can keep your billables near target by getting comp time after busy periods. Ten or more years ago, some big firms use to deduct for the overhead you are no longer contributing to, so if you worked 60 percent of your former billables, you'd get paid 55 percent of your former salary. I think that has gone away. Frequently, you get fewer vacation days but you typically need less.
Under this model, do most people continue to get their full health insurance and 401(k) benefits? Or, assuming a 60% schedule, would they get 60% of whatever contribution-to-premium the employer makes for full time employees?
I'm actually surprised to hear that this is how things are done at most places these days. Several part-time lawyers I've spoken with are getting paid a percentage of the revenue they bring in instead of a guaranteed salary. They get no benefits. They're frustrated because they feel the percentage they get does not include a sufficient premium to compensate them for write-downs, slow- and non-paying clients, and all the unbillable time they are expected to spend at firm meetings, on business development, etc. But they put up with it because they feel lucky to work part time. I'm curious whether anyone is paid on this model and feels good about it, presumably because the "commission" is set at a high enough percentage to reward the unbillable time investment.
Anonymous
04/28/2014 16:45
Subject: Re:Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
It is pretty straightforward -- at most places, your salary gets reduced equivalent to the amount you are working. So, if you work 60 percent of expected billable hours, you get 60 percent pay. Most places will make it up to you with a bonus if you go beyond your billable total. Or you can keep your billables near target by getting comp time after busy periods. Ten or more years ago, some big firms use to deduct for the overhead you are no longer contributing to, so if you worked 60 percent of your former billables, you'd get paid 55 percent of your former salary. I think that has gone away. Frequently, you get fewer vacation days but you typically need less.
Anonymous
04/28/2014 16:24
Subject: Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
OP here. Thanks to those who responded thoughtfully and in good faith. I have to say, I'm surprised that those responses have been so few.
Yes, I have the political capital and work history to negotiate a part time arrangement. I am at a small firm in a niche practice and the decision-makers are open to part time because they don't want me to leave. I am aware of all the pitfalls of working part time and recognize that I'll be making a sacrifice in terms of advancement, skills-development, and long-term marketability.
What I don't know is how other part-time lawyers in their prime working/parenting years (i.e. not brand new grads trying to get established and not semi-retired senior lawyers trying to keep a toe in throughout their sixties and early seventies) are getting compensated, and what they wish they could change about that compensation. I've heard a lot of part-time lawyers express dissatisfaction about their compensation, but for very good reason, most of them are reluctant to get specific IRL about what they are getting and why it feels unfair. I honestly don't know why people would be reluctant to share this kind of information on an anonymous forum. Knowledge is power, ladies. The more we all know about what other part-time lawyers are getting and how they feel about it, the more equipped we will be to negotiate better family-friendly opportunities for ourselves.
Seriously, is there no one out there willing to share this information?
Yes, I have the political capital and work history to negotiate a part time arrangement. I am at a small firm in a niche practice and the decision-makers are open to part time because they don't want me to leave. I am aware of all the pitfalls of working part time and recognize that I'll be making a sacrifice in terms of advancement, skills-development, and long-term marketability.
What I don't know is how other part-time lawyers in their prime working/parenting years (i.e. not brand new grads trying to get established and not semi-retired senior lawyers trying to keep a toe in throughout their sixties and early seventies) are getting compensated, and what they wish they could change about that compensation. I've heard a lot of part-time lawyers express dissatisfaction about their compensation, but for very good reason, most of them are reluctant to get specific IRL about what they are getting and why it feels unfair. I honestly don't know why people would be reluctant to share this kind of information on an anonymous forum. Knowledge is power, ladies. The more we all know about what other part-time lawyers are getting and how they feel about it, the more equipped we will be to negotiate better family-friendly opportunities for ourselves.
Seriously, is there no one out there willing to share this information?
Anonymous
04/28/2014 11:32
Subject: Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am thinking of trying to go part time at a law firm that has never permitted alternative work arrangements and has no go-to model for compensating part time lawyers. Please help me and others understand what is typical by answering the questions below. I suspect a lot of us could benefit from more information about how part time lawyer jobs are being defined these days.
Do you work for a large law firm, small law firm, the government, a corporate legal department, a nonprofit organization, or some other entity?
How many hours a week do you work? What percentage of full time does your employer consider that (e.g. 80% of full time,50% of full time?
Do you get paid as a W2 employee or a 1099 contractor?
Do you get paid a fixed annual salary? If so, does your part time salary correspond pro rata to the salary you’d earn if you worked full time? E.g. you work 80% of full time and get 80% of the salary you’d earn if you worked full time.
If you get a fixed salary and work extra hours some weeks to meet client needs, do you get paid for this time? If so, how? E.g., comp time, additional pay at negotiated hourly rate, reflected in discretionary end-of-year bonus, etc.
Do you get paid for every hour worked, without regard to whether those hours are billable vs. non-billable? If so, how many years experience do you have and at what hourly rate do you get paid?
Do you get paid per billable hour worked with no compensation for non-billable hours? If so, what is your per-billable-hour pay rate and how does it compare (as a percentage) to your client billing rate?
Do you get paid a percentage of revenue billed and collected? If so, what percentage to you get? Does the percentage vary according to who generated the client?
What, if any, health insurance benefit you do get and how does it compare to what full time employees of your organization get?
Are you eligible to participate in your employer’s 401(K) plan? If so, do you get the same employer contribution (as a percentage of income) that you received before going part time?
How much, if any, paid vacation and sick leave do you get and how does this compare to what full time employees of your organization get?
Do you feel fairly compensated?
What, if anything, would you like to change about your compensation or other aspects of your part time arrangement?
How satisfied are you with your part time attorney job?
Thanks!
What kind of consulting fee are you offering me to respond to your post?
Ahh, women helping women. Lovely.
Anonymous
04/28/2014 09:02
Subject: Re:Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
I don't know the size of your firm (I am assuming it's not biglaw since most biglaw firms have part-time arrangements at least on paper) or the area of law you are in, and assuming that you bring enough to the table and have enough political capital for your firm to accommodate you, you should negotiate the best arrangement you think you can, with the ability to renegotiate if you feel things are not working out. Since you firm has never done this before, some growing pains are to be expected. Personally, I don't always think that I am compensated as well as I can be, but the flexibility my schedule offers it is worth it.
Anonymous
04/28/2014 07:57
Subject: Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
Anonymous wrote:I am thinking of trying to go part time at a law firm that has never permitted alternative work arrangements and has no go-to model for compensating part time lawyers. Please help me and others understand what is typical by answering the questions below. I suspect a lot of us could benefit from more information about how part time lawyer jobs are being defined these days.
Do you work for a large law firm, small law firm, the government, a corporate legal department, a nonprofit organization, or some other entity?
How many hours a week do you work? What percentage of full time does your employer consider that (e.g. 80% of full time,50% of full time?
Do you get paid as a W2 employee or a 1099 contractor?
Do you get paid a fixed annual salary? If so, does your part time salary correspond pro rata to the salary you’d earn if you worked full time? E.g. you work 80% of full time and get 80% of the salary you’d earn if you worked full time.
If you get a fixed salary and work extra hours some weeks to meet client needs, do you get paid for this time? If so, how? E.g., comp time, additional pay at negotiated hourly rate, reflected in discretionary end-of-year bonus, etc.
Do you get paid for every hour worked, without regard to whether those hours are billable vs. non-billable? If so, how many years experience do you have and at what hourly rate do you get paid?
Do you get paid per billable hour worked with no compensation for non-billable hours? If so, what is your per-billable-hour pay rate and how does it compare (as a percentage) to your client billing rate?
Do you get paid a percentage of revenue billed and collected? If so, what percentage to you get? Does the percentage vary according to who generated the client?
What, if any, health insurance benefit you do get and how does it compare to what full time employees of your organization get?
Are you eligible to participate in your employer’s 401(K) plan? If so, do you get the same employer contribution (as a percentage of income) that you received before going part time?
How much, if any, paid vacation and sick leave do you get and how does this compare to what full time employees of your organization get?
Do you feel fairly compensated?
What, if anything, would you like to change about your compensation or other aspects of your part time arrangement?
How satisfied are you with your part time attorney job?
Thanks!
What kind of consulting fee are you offering me to respond to your post?
Anonymous
04/28/2014 07:48
Subject: Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
PP is right, if your firm has never considered PT before, do you have the capital, political or otherwise, to be the first? If you ask and are told no, are you in an environment where you will be seen as damaged goods?
Anonymous
04/28/2014 03:24
Subject: Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
You won't like my answer. I've seen the world from both sides - the highly paid associate in a premier firm and the contract work side. If you have a stable law position in this market I would not rock the boat with your firm at all. There are over 50,000 unemployed lawyers ready to take your position. If you need to, outplace more chores, arrange for groceries to be delivered, hire a housekeeper, whatever to free you up to better situate yourself to stay in fulltime.
Anonymous
04/28/2014 02:56
Subject: Lawyers employed part time, tell us how your compensation is structured.
I am thinking of trying to go part time at a law firm that has never permitted alternative work arrangements and has no go-to model for compensating part time lawyers. Please help me and others understand what is typical by answering the questions below. I suspect a lot of us could benefit from more information about how part time lawyer jobs are being defined these days.
Do you work for a large law firm, small law firm, the government, a corporate legal department, a nonprofit organization, or some other entity?
How many hours a week do you work? What percentage of full time does your employer consider that (e.g. 80% of full time,50% of full time?
Do you get paid as a W2 employee or a 1099 contractor?
Do you get paid a fixed annual salary? If so, does your part time salary correspond pro rata to the salary you’d earn if you worked full time? E.g. you work 80% of full time and get 80% of the salary you’d earn if you worked full time.
If you get a fixed salary and work extra hours some weeks to meet client needs, do you get paid for this time? If so, how? E.g., comp time, additional pay at negotiated hourly rate, reflected in discretionary end-of-year bonus, etc.
Do you get paid for every hour worked, without regard to whether those hours are billable vs. non-billable? If so, how many years experience do you have and at what hourly rate do you get paid?
Do you get paid per billable hour worked with no compensation for non-billable hours? If so, what is your per-billable-hour pay rate and how does it compare (as a percentage) to your client billing rate?
Do you get paid a percentage of revenue billed and collected? If so, what percentage to you get? Does the percentage vary according to who generated the client?
What, if any, health insurance benefit you do get and how does it compare to what full time employees of your organization get?
Are you eligible to participate in your employer’s 401(K) plan? If so, do you get the same employer contribution (as a percentage of income) that you received before going part time?
How much, if any, paid vacation and sick leave do you get and how does this compare to what full time employees of your organization get?
Do you feel fairly compensated?
What, if anything, would you like to change about your compensation or other aspects of your part time arrangement?
How satisfied are you with your part time attorney job?
Thanks!
Do you work for a large law firm, small law firm, the government, a corporate legal department, a nonprofit organization, or some other entity?
How many hours a week do you work? What percentage of full time does your employer consider that (e.g. 80% of full time,50% of full time?
Do you get paid as a W2 employee or a 1099 contractor?
Do you get paid a fixed annual salary? If so, does your part time salary correspond pro rata to the salary you’d earn if you worked full time? E.g. you work 80% of full time and get 80% of the salary you’d earn if you worked full time.
If you get a fixed salary and work extra hours some weeks to meet client needs, do you get paid for this time? If so, how? E.g., comp time, additional pay at negotiated hourly rate, reflected in discretionary end-of-year bonus, etc.
Do you get paid for every hour worked, without regard to whether those hours are billable vs. non-billable? If so, how many years experience do you have and at what hourly rate do you get paid?
Do you get paid per billable hour worked with no compensation for non-billable hours? If so, what is your per-billable-hour pay rate and how does it compare (as a percentage) to your client billing rate?
Do you get paid a percentage of revenue billed and collected? If so, what percentage to you get? Does the percentage vary according to who generated the client?
What, if any, health insurance benefit you do get and how does it compare to what full time employees of your organization get?
Are you eligible to participate in your employer’s 401(K) plan? If so, do you get the same employer contribution (as a percentage of income) that you received before going part time?
How much, if any, paid vacation and sick leave do you get and how does this compare to what full time employees of your organization get?
Do you feel fairly compensated?
What, if anything, would you like to change about your compensation or other aspects of your part time arrangement?
How satisfied are you with your part time attorney job?
Thanks!