Anonymous
04/22/2014 20:43
Subject: Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
Nobody should be comfortable with this, because it is discriminatory.
Who cares if your child is Ivy-League material or not, and gets accepted or rejected? Of course it won't affect their change of overall happiness in their lives.
BUT, regardless of whether you have a stake in this or not, all of us should be sensitive to the fact that Asian students have been discriminated against for years and nothing has yet been done about it.
Thanks for bringing in up, OP.
Anonymous
04/22/2014 20:35
Subject: Re:Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
Anonymous wrote:
When a school tells you time and time again that you are the best of the best, that you are cream of the crop, you start to get a big head. Just like when a parent tells their kid the same thing, the kid gets a big head and is not likable. I have seen that, yes.
What insecurities are you referring to?
Everything we say here is a generalization. People make generalizations all the time. It's how we have a frame of reference and make judgement calls. I'm sure you've done it once or twice in your life.
Seriously? Ivies don't "tell you time and time again that you are the best of the best." Do you really think the deans get up there in front of incoming freshman and make speeches like that, with recaps once a year for the next three years? No, the speeches from Ivy administrations and profs to students are all about your responsibilities to take advantage of the educational opportunities and hopefully use them for the societal good. That was my experience and is now DC's experience.
Perhaps you are referring to kids' own perceptions that getting in means they are the cream, instead of the truth which is that they basically won a lottery. In that case, it's failed parenting.
Anonymous
04/22/2014 20:19
Subject: Re:Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
Anonymous wrote:People from ivy leagues are not like able?
And you fear that ivies will make your kids unlike able? An ivy would undo all the years of training and work your family did?
You sound foolish.
You really think a school makes people unlike able?
Perhaps you should check your insecurities and small minded generalizations.
When a school tells you time and time again that you are the best of the best, that you are cream of the crop, you start to get a big head. Just like when a parent tells their kid the same thing, the kid gets a big head and is not likable. I have seen that, yes.
What insecurities are you referring to?
Everything we say here is a generalization. People make generalizations all the time. It's how we have a frame of reference and make judgement calls. I'm sure you've done it once or twice in your life.
Anonymous
04/22/2014 20:14
Subject: Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
I think quotas on Asians hurts our country. I am white, but work in a technology field. Asians often have a very strong work ethic. A strong work ethic is at the heart of the US character. They should be rewarded and others should strive to emulate them.
Anonymous
04/22/2014 19:41
Subject: Re:Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
People from ivy leagues are not like able?
And you fear that ivies will make your kids unlike able? An ivy would undo all the years of training and work your family did?
You sound foolish.
You really think a school makes people unlike able?
Perhaps you should check your insecurities and small minded generalizations.
And you fear that ivies will make your kids unlike able? An ivy would undo all the years of training and work your family did?
You sound foolish.
You really think a school makes people unlike able?
Perhaps you should check your insecurities and small minded generalizations.
Anonymous
04/22/2014 19:31
Subject: Re:Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They are mostly private schools and thankfully look to have diverse student bodies, even if Jews and Asians think they rightfully should dominate every selective institution of higher learning.
If school wish to do this they should as a trade-off be required to report acceptance statistics based on demographics.
I.E.
Cohorts= legacy, athletic recruit, white, black, hispanic, asian, foreign national, male, female.
attributes = gpa, class rank, sat's, sat 2's, ap/ib exam scores.
A simple crosstab chart should be published just so parents/students can accurately judge their chances and be realistic.
Simply put, if the black-box of admissions became transparent, I do not think society would be comfortable with it.
No. Private institutions should not be required to define as "attributes" only things like test scores that certain groups believe would inure to their advantage.
Anonymous
04/22/2014 19:24
Subject: Re:Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
A different Asian mom here. I don't care if my DCs get into Ivy. Personally, in some ways, I hope they don't b/c 1. we can't afford it. We won't get a full ride b/c we make too much money, but we don't have enough to pay for all of it, and we have more than one kid 2. I find people from Ivy Leagues are not likable, and I really want to like my kid after college.
If on the off-chance they get in and they want to go, of course, we will do what we can to support them. But I definitely wouldn't push my kids to go there. There are plenty of good schools out there where they can get a good education, and then after they graduate be able to find a job to support themselves. As long as they can do this and are happy, good people, I'll give myself a pat on the back in the end.
If on the off-chance they get in and they want to go, of course, we will do what we can to support them. But I definitely wouldn't push my kids to go there. There are plenty of good schools out there where they can get a good education, and then after they graduate be able to find a job to support themselves. As long as they can do this and are happy, good people, I'll give myself a pat on the back in the end.
Anonymous
04/22/2014 19:23
Subject: Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
Anonymous wrote:LOL. Asian mom of a magnet Junior here.
This should burn me up because my kid has these same things stacked against him (limiting college quota, more competition in school etc., needing higher GPA and SAT scores than other racial groups) - But it does not.
For two reasons -
1) I do not buy into this whole Ivy hype that if you do not get into it, you are doomed. In fact - I have been a big supporter of public schools and I am a big supporter of state universities. Can my kid get a great STEM education in other colleges? A resounding yes! An example of a Blair HS SMACS kid who went to UMD and have gotten national recognition.
http://www.umdrightnow.umd.edu/news/umd-junior-selected-prestigious-truman-scholarship-0
2) My kids have been given good enough advantages in their lives that they can make something out of their lives.
They have had enough enrichment and the best of what public school education can offer. They have solid family support. All of their college (undergrad, masters, Phd, medical school, law school - whatever they choose) - will be financed by us. Which means that they solid advantage over many many students who will start their professional lives after college with crippling student debt.
And having said that I do believe that there is no way disadvantaged communities can come up until the playing field is evened. If it means something as small as my kid's Ivy League rejection - so be it.
And why would I want the underrepresented minorities to do well? Mainly because you want your kids to live in a stable and functional society. Income, education, achievement gaps also create imbalance and instability in the society. We all suffer when that happens - even Ivy League graduates.
I would marry you if I wasn't already taken.
Anonymous
04/22/2014 19:22
Subject: Re:Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
Anonymous wrote:They are mostly private schools and thankfully look to have diverse student bodies, even if Jews and Asians think they rightfully should dominate every selective institution of higher learning.
If school wish to do this they should as a trade-off be required to report acceptance statistics based on demographics.
I.E.
Cohorts= legacy, athletic recruit, white, black, hispanic, asian, foreign national, male, female.
attributes = gpa, class rank, sat's, sat 2's, ap/ib exam scores.
A simple crosstab chart should be published just so parents/students can accurately judge their chances and be realistic.
Simply put, if the black-box of admissions became transparent, I do not think society would be comfortable with it.
Anonymous
04/22/2014 19:16
Subject: Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
LOL. Asian mom of a magnet Junior here.
This should burn me up because my kid has these same things stacked against him (limiting college quota, more competition in school etc., needing higher GPA and SAT scores than other racial groups) - But it does not.
For two reasons -
1) I do not buy into this whole Ivy hype that if you do not get into it, you are doomed. In fact - I have been a big supporter of public schools and I am a big supporter of state universities. Can my kid get a great STEM education in other colleges? A resounding yes! An example of a Blair HS SMACS kid who went to UMD and have gotten national recognition.
http://www.umdrightnow.umd.edu/news/umd-junior-selected-prestigious-truman-scholarship-0
2) My kids have been given good enough advantages in their lives that they can make something out of their lives.
They have had enough enrichment and the best of what public school education can offer. They have solid family support. All of their college (undergrad, masters, Phd, medical school, law school - whatever they choose) - will be financed by us. Which means that they solid advantage over many many students who will start their professional lives after college with crippling student debt.
And having said that I do believe that there is no way disadvantaged communities can come up until the playing field is evened. If it means something as small as my kid's Ivy League rejection - so be it.
And why would I want the underrepresented minorities to do well? Mainly because you want your kids to live in a stable and functional society. Income, education, achievement gaps also create imbalance and instability in the society. We all suffer when that happens - even Ivy League graduates.
This should burn me up because my kid has these same things stacked against him (limiting college quota, more competition in school etc., needing higher GPA and SAT scores than other racial groups) - But it does not.
For two reasons -
1) I do not buy into this whole Ivy hype that if you do not get into it, you are doomed. In fact - I have been a big supporter of public schools and I am a big supporter of state universities. Can my kid get a great STEM education in other colleges? A resounding yes! An example of a Blair HS SMACS kid who went to UMD and have gotten national recognition.
http://www.umdrightnow.umd.edu/news/umd-junior-selected-prestigious-truman-scholarship-0
2) My kids have been given good enough advantages in their lives that they can make something out of their lives.
They have had enough enrichment and the best of what public school education can offer. They have solid family support. All of their college (undergrad, masters, Phd, medical school, law school - whatever they choose) - will be financed by us. Which means that they solid advantage over many many students who will start their professional lives after college with crippling student debt.
And having said that I do believe that there is no way disadvantaged communities can come up until the playing field is evened. If it means something as small as my kid's Ivy League rejection - so be it.
And why would I want the underrepresented minorities to do well? Mainly because you want your kids to live in a stable and functional society. Income, education, achievement gaps also create imbalance and instability in the society. We all suffer when that happens - even Ivy League graduates.
Anonymous
04/22/2014 19:04
Subject: Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
Anonymous wrote:This is newsworthy ... why, again? I guess I should read the whole thing. It IS a bummer, but it's old news as far as I can tell. At least 20, maybe even 30 years old.
It may be old news but is worth bringing up again b/c we as humans don't seem to learn from history.
Anonymous
04/22/2014 18:47
Subject: Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
This is newsworthy ... why, again? I guess I should read the whole thing. It IS a bummer, but it's old news as far as I can tell. At least 20, maybe even 30 years old.
Anonymous
04/22/2014 18:47
Subject: Re:Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
They are mostly private schools and thankfully look to have diverse student bodies, even if Jews and Asians think they rightfully should dominate every selective institution of higher learning.
Anonymous
04/22/2014 18:46
Subject: Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
If elite private schools did not have affirmative action, their demographics would reflect UCLA and Berkeley (or at the very least 30% asian).....i.e. and effective doubling of the population at ivy league schools (which cap at roughly 15-16%).
Ron Unz has done very good work in quantifying this.
Interestingly enough in the early 90's some ivies actually had higher percentage's of asian students with respect to their student body. There was also more variance among the ivy league between the schools in terms of asian population.
However some point in the late 90's, the data shows an implicit 'understanding' seems to have been reached and schools converged to a 15-16% rate.
Ron Unz has done very good work in quantifying this.
Interestingly enough in the early 90's some ivies actually had higher percentage's of asian students with respect to their student body. There was also more variance among the ivy league between the schools in terms of asian population.
However some point in the late 90's, the data shows an implicit 'understanding' seems to have been reached and schools converged to a 15-16% rate.
Anonymous
04/22/2014 18:41
Subject: Dark Chain of Events to Your Kid's Ivy League Rejection
Interesting. History repeats itself. I'm sure Jews are now very well represented in Ivy League schools now. But they still impose quotas today, just on Asians now instead of Jews.
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-21/the-dark-chain-of-events-to-your-kid-s-harvard-rejection?cmpid=yhoo
http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-04-21/the-dark-chain-of-events-to-your-kid-s-harvard-rejection?cmpid=yhoo