Anonymous wrote:Another challenge I suspect might be an issue when trying to reinvent an existing high schools in DC....DC old timers are big boosters of their alma maters...not always financially...but as watch dogs for ensuring that "their school" doesn't change too much. Is that off base?

That is a huge problem, especially when the change might entail the racial makeup of the school. You could argue that alumni are a bigger voting block than parents.

Anonymous wrote:I thnk it would have to be test in on the level of a TJ (not necessarily STEM though) and as a PP stated, it needs to be the best from day one. And maybe test in is one way to achieve that.

How about combining a test-in academy of some sort with general non-test in program?

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think folks would only buy in if the program at Roosevelt was superior. And by program I do not just mean educational offerings (although that's critical and there would need to be test-in advanced programs, etc). But it would need to have outstanding, moneyed extra-curriculars too. I would totally do it...but it would need to be world class our of the starting block...not a 5 year ramp-up. Best administrators, best teachers. Best. Now that is probably a bar set too high, right?

That seems like an appropriate bar. I expect it would cost less than building a new high school.

I think it could happen if DCPS committed the money and was able to attract and bring in the best administrative talent to lead and give that leadership a lot of room to make decisions. It would have to have all the things that higher SES families need...like a knowledgeable, motivated guidance counseling staff that is committed to getting achieving DCPS kids into the best colleges and universities. At the same time you'd have to have other guidance staff members whose focus is on shoring up the other end of the spectrum...making sure kids at risk are getting to school and working to reduce the drop-out rate. I don't think you can have the same staff members working on both ends of the spectrum without one of those populations losing out. And if my higher SES kid is going to be the one to lose out, then no thanks.

Committed the money... They just spent $127 million on the renovation and the school has 450 kids this year. What you're talking about is relatively cheap, maybe a couple of million a year if you went all out.

This is the crux of the problem: DC doesn't have a boundary issue, it has a quality issue.

I thnk it would have to be test in on the level of a TJ (not necessarily STEM though) and as a PP stated, it needs to be the best from day one. And maybe test in is one way to achieve that.

Another challenge I suspect might be an issue when trying to reinvent an existing high schools in DC....DC old timers are big boosters of their alma maters...not always financially...but as watch dogs for ensuring that "their school" doesn't change too much. Is that off base?

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think folks would only buy in if the program at Roosevelt was superior. And by program I do not just mean educational offerings (although that's critical and there would need to be test-in advanced programs, etc). But it would need to have outstanding, moneyed extra-curriculars too. I would totally do it...but it would need to be world class our of the starting block...not a 5 year ramp-up. Best administrators, best teachers. Best. Now that is probably a bar set too high, right?

That seems like an appropriate bar. I expect it would cost less than building a new high school.

I think it could happen if DCPS committed the money and was able to attract and bring in the best administrative talent to lead and give that leadership a lot of room to make decisions. It would have to have all the things that higher SES families need...like a knowledgeable, motivated guidance counseling staff that is committed to getting achieving DCPS kids into the best colleges and universities. At the same time you'd have to have other guidance staff members whose focus is on shoring up the other end of the spectrum...making sure kids at risk are getting to school and working to reduce the drop-out rate. I don't think you can have the same staff members working on both ends of the spectrum without one of those populations losing out. And if my higher SES kid is going to be the one to lose out, then no thanks.

Having followed middle school issues for a long time it's painfully obvious that it's much easier to start a new school than to turn an existing school around. I've watched for a decade while parents have tried to change Hardy. In much less time, Latin (founded 2007) and Basis (2011) have sprung up, with greatly lesser resources, and now attract more kids in-boundary for Hardy than Hardy does.

New schools have the advantage that they don't have anyone fighting for the status quo.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, the question could be rephrased: If you could duplicate Wilson's success, and locate it either at any existing high school or a new site WOTP, where would you pick? Clearly, Roosevelt is more central than any of the WOTP locations. But that question assumes that geography doesn't affect school performance, and the empirical evidence is that it does.

Anonymous wrote:I think folks would only buy in if the program at Roosevelt was superior. And by program I do not just mean educational offerings (although that's critical and there would need to be test-in advanced programs, etc). But it would need to have outstanding, moneyed extra-curriculars too. I would totally do it...but it would need to be world class our of the starting block...not a 5 year ramp-up. Best administrators, best teachers. Best. Now that is probably a bar set too high, right?

That seems like an appropriate bar. I expect it would cost less than building a new high school.

I think folks would only buy in if the program at Roosevelt was superior. And by program I do not just mean educational offerings (although that's critical and there would need to be test-in advanced programs, etc). But it would need to have outstanding, moneyed extra-curriculars too. I would totally do it...but it would need to be world class our of the starting block...not a 5 year ramp-up. Best administrators, best teachers. Best. Now that is probably a bar set too high, right?

Excuse my grammatical errors.

Anonymous wrote:Well, if Roosevelt were brought up to Wilson standards, then sure, Roosevelt might be a great alternative to building a new high school. And if you could transfuse enough well-prepared WotP students in at the same time, they really could jump-start Roosevelt (assuming the teaching and programming are up to snuff). The question is, can DCPS bring Roosevelt up to Wilson standards quickly enough?

Also, "not an insurmountable commute" is not all that reassuring. High school students already have major issues with schedules and sleep deprivation, and making my kid get up even earlier in the morning to commute is a fairly significant negative in my book.

I rode the T3 from from Friendship Heights to Bullis in Potomac Maryland for 4 years. It is possible for HS kids to travel long distances for schools. I was also on a sports team every season. I lived in the Petworth neighborhood.

First I would be annoyed as Wilson is much much closer to my house. But that aside....

I think I am more willing to "risk" my kids at an up and coming school at the elementary school level. In high school the stakes are too high. College is right around the corner and a sub-par high school experience is not a risk I am willing to take.

I would move before putting my kids in an "up and coming" high school, whereas I would be more willing to help make it work earlier.

Well, if Roosevelt were brought up to Wilson standards, then sure, Roosevelt might be a great alternative to building a new high school. And if you could transfuse enough well-prepared WotP students in at the same time, they really could jump-start Roosevelt (assuming the teaching and programming are up to snuff). The question is, can DCPS bring Roosevelt up to Wilson standards quickly enough?

Also, "not an insurmountable commute" is not all that reassuring. High school students already have major issues with schedules and sleep deprivation, and making my kid get up even earlier in the morning to commute is a fairly significant negative in my book.

We live by Sibley hospital and transportation would be a nightmare. If that could be worked out we wouldn't necessarily object if programming was improved.

I just want to toss this idea out to see the reaction. Don't crucify me for asking. But, if Wilson is over-crowded and a new facility is required, why couldn't some students go to Roosevelt, assuming its programs were tremendously improved to be at Wilson levels?

Roosevelt is currently undergoing a multi-million dollar renovation, but will be tremendously under-enrolled when complete. While it wouldn't be practical to be fed by Hardy, it's not all that far from Deal. Not as convenient for WotP families, obviously, but not an insurmountable commute for high school students. That could free up space in Wilson for Hardy and Oyster and obviate the need for a new WotP high school.

Full disclosure, Proposal Example B put my family in a feeder pattern leading to Roosevelt, something we are not prepared to accept. In fact, I was recently quoted in a Washington City Paper article saying that if we were told to go to Roosevelt, we wouldn't go. So, I am playing devil's advocate a bit. But, the argument can be made as Petworth-area elementary schools improve, there will be demand for a quality middle school (no standalone middle schools exist in Ward 4) and, eventually, a high school. If feeding some WotP high school students to Roosevelt could both relieve over-crowding at Wilson and help jump-start Roosevelt's revival, that would be a win-win solution, wouldn't it?

Okay, flame proof outerwear is now fully donned and all seams sealed. Blast away.