Anonymous
04/06/2014 21:09
Subject: Re:s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
Anonymous wrote:So, what if you have a first grader who starts in Sept and already meets the standards? That is what will happen. The teacher will bust their butts teaching the standards to everyone else/
We have always had standards -- state standards. And many kids enter school already having mastered the standards. What happens to them depends on the school district, the school, and the teacher.
Anonymous
04/06/2014 20:04
Subject: Re:s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
So, what if you have a first grader who starts in Sept and already meets the standards? That is what will happen. The teacher will bust their butts teaching the standards to everyone else/
Anonymous
04/06/2014 19:56
Subject: s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
Dear God
Learn this, OP:
Standards are standards. They are concepts to master.
However, the teacher MUST turn them into student-friendly mastery objectives and scaffold lessons - using differentiated methods - to reach all students.
Standards stay the same; methods change.
good grief
Learn this, OP:
Standards are standards. They are concepts to master.
However, the teacher MUST turn them into student-friendly mastery objectives and scaffold lessons - using differentiated methods - to reach all students.
Standards stay the same; methods change.
good grief
Anonymous wrote:This is a spin off of the Common Core thread.
A poster is saying that the Common Core standards are bad, the standards are too high for kids with learning disabilities.
So my question is, what would standards look like, that were variable enough to allow for such differences in ability?
For example:
By the end of 3rd grade, students will be able to:
(reading fluency standard)
- read a grade level text (if they are reading on grade level) with fluency and comprehension
- read slightly below grade level test (if they have mild learning disabilities)
- read at a primer level (if they have severe learning disabilities)
- begin to know letter-sound correspondences (if they have severe phonological disability)
- identify the front and back of a book (if they have never been in school before)
etc?
You would like to have different standards for every different ability? Or what exactly?
Do you think it is acceptable to tell parents of a child (or the child herself) that she has not yet mastered the benchmark standards for her grade, if the reason she hasn't yet made the standard is that she has a learning disability? That is, would you say a child who is in 5th grade, but is reading at a second grade level, should receive an A for 5th grade reading (or proficient, or whatever grade you are using) because she is doing the best she can?
Anonymous
04/06/2014 19:49
Subject: Re:s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
You already basically have that with IEP ogress reports. Under the IEP process, goals are written based on the individual student's needs/abilities. So, for a third grader still struggling with beginning reading, the IEP goals would reflect that. Also, IEP accommodarions can requrie that a student be assessed in different ways so, for example, a student struggling with reading could still be accurately assessed on his knowledge od social studies.
I don't know about high school, but for a younger child, where grades are more or less irrelevant, an IEP progress report would accurately reflect progress in the subjects where the student can't be realistically expected to be on grade level.
I don't know about high school, but for a younger child, where grades are more or less irrelevant, an IEP progress report would accurately reflect progress in the subjects where the student can't be realistically expected to be on grade level.
Anonymous
04/06/2014 19:42
Subject: Re:s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Reading/writing is different from knowledge. If a child is not reading/writing at or above grade level, then remediation needs to be done. If the child is determined to have a reading/writing disability but is able to do the course work through other means (audio books, scribes), then I think that child should not be held back. It would be like saying a blind person can't read, so they need to be held back until they can read at grade level.
I do think that that child should also have the reading/writing remediation to get them as far as they can get, but they should not be held back if they are cognitively able to do the work. They should be given the support they need to be able to succeed.
No one is saying to hold a child back.
But there is a certain standard expected of all students by the end of each grade. The child should be able to do X Y and Z by the end of 5th grade. That is what the meaning of a "standard" is.
If the standard is that a child be able to read at a 5th grade level by the end of fifth grade, should that standard be altered, for the kids who aren't able to do so? If so, what should the standard look like instead?
You can keep the standard, but know that it will not cover 1005 of the children. If you set the standard for 100%, then the standard will be far too low for most children. Standards are also helpful in identifying children who need extra help, have LDs or other issues that may be interfering or have low IQs. As it is, most standards are set at the 25th or 16th percentile levels- so 75% or 84% of the children should meet or exceed them- not 100%. The mistake is to think that 100% of the students should meet those standards.
Anonymous
04/06/2014 19:30
Subject: Re:s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
Anonymous wrote:Reading/writing is different from knowledge. If a child is not reading/writing at or above grade level, then remediation needs to be done. If the child is determined to have a reading/writing disability but is able to do the course work through other means (audio books, scribes), then I think that child should not be held back. It would be like saying a blind person can't read, so they need to be held back until they can read at grade level.
I do think that that child should also have the reading/writing remediation to get them as far as they can get, but they should not be held back if they are cognitively able to do the work. They should be given the support they need to be able to succeed.
No one is saying to hold a child back.
But there is a certain standard expected of all students by the end of each grade. The child should be able to do X Y and Z by the end of 5th grade. That is what the meaning of a "standard" is.
If the standard is that a child be able to read at a 5th grade level by the end of fifth grade, should that standard be altered, for the kids who aren't able to do so? If so, what should the standard look like instead?
Anonymous
04/06/2014 19:20
Subject: Re:s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
Reading/writing is different from knowledge. If a child is not reading/writing at or above grade level, then remediation needs to be done. If the child is determined to have a reading/writing disability but is able to do the course work through other means (audio books, scribes), then I think that child should not be held back. It would be like saying a blind person can't read, so they need to be held back until they can read at grade level.
I do think that that child should also have the reading/writing remediation to get them as far as they can get, but they should not be held back if they are cognitively able to do the work. They should be given the support they need to be able to succeed.
I do think that that child should also have the reading/writing remediation to get them as far as they can get, but they should not be held back if they are cognitively able to do the work. They should be given the support they need to be able to succeed.
Anonymous
04/06/2014 18:56
Subject: Re:s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
Are you saying, "My child has a language disability, therefore no child in public school should be expected to achieve anything better than what my child can achieve"?
Anonymous
04/06/2014 18:41
Subject: Re:s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
Anonymous wrote:Education by these standards is just not measurable in this way. Kids come to schools with different learning styles, different needs, and different experiences.
So -- you just don't think there should be any standards, period?
Kids who come to school with different learning styles, if they aren't reading on grade level by the end of grade 4, that's OK?
Anonymous
04/06/2014 17:15
Subject: Re:s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
Education by these standards is just not measurable in this way. Kids come to schools with different learning styles, different needs, and different experiences.
Anonymous
04/06/2014 17:11
Subject: Re:s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
Re:s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone? [Up]
Then, they wouldn't be standards.
Anonymous
04/06/2014 17:11
Subject: Re:s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
OP here -- no, of course if expectations are different for each child, it isn't a standard.
Anonymous
04/06/2014 17:09
Subject: Re:s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
This is a spin off of the Common Core thread.
A poster is saying that the Common Core standards are bad, the standards are too high for kids with learning disabilities.
So my question is, what would standards look like, that were variable enough to allow for such differences in ability?
For example:
By the end of 3rd grade, students will be able to:
(reading fluency standard)
- read a grade level text (if they are reading on grade level) with fluency and comprehension
- read slightly below grade level test (if they have mild learning disabilities)
- read at a primer level (if they have severe learning disabilities)
- begin to know letter-sound correspondences (if they have severe phonological disability)
- identify the front and back of a book (if they have never been in school before)
etc?
You would like to have different standards for every different ability? Or what exactly?
This would encourage far more testing. It is not a "standard".
Anonymous
04/06/2014 17:08
Subject: Re:s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
Do you think it is acceptable to tell parents of a child (or the child herself) that she has not yet mastered the benchmark standards for her grade, if the reason she hasn't yet made the standard is that she has a learning disability? That is, would you say a child who is in 5th grade, but is reading at a second grade level, should receive an A for 5th grade reading (or proficient, or whatever grade you are using) because she is doing the best she can?
I used a report card similar to this one year. The teachers were thrilled with it. Turned out to be a miserable failure--the parents just did not "get" it. Thought the kid was doing great.
Anonymous
04/06/2014 16:53
Subject: s/o How would standards work if they were different for everyone?
This is a spin off of the Common Core thread.
A poster is saying that the Common Core standards are bad, the standards are too high for kids with learning disabilities.
So my question is, what would standards look like, that were variable enough to allow for such differences in ability?
For example:
By the end of 3rd grade, students will be able to:
(reading fluency standard)
- read a grade level text (if they are reading on grade level) with fluency and comprehension
- read slightly below grade level test (if they have mild learning disabilities)
- read at a primer level (if they have severe learning disabilities)
- begin to know letter-sound correspondences (if they have severe phonological disability)
- identify the front and back of a book (if they have never been in school before)
etc?
You would like to have different standards for every different ability? Or what exactly?
Do you think it is acceptable to tell parents of a child (or the child herself) that she has not yet mastered the benchmark standards for her grade, if the reason she hasn't yet made the standard is that she has a learning disability? That is, would you say a child who is in 5th grade, but is reading at a second grade level, should receive an A for 5th grade reading (or proficient, or whatever grade you are using) because she is doing the best she can?
A poster is saying that the Common Core standards are bad, the standards are too high for kids with learning disabilities.
So my question is, what would standards look like, that were variable enough to allow for such differences in ability?
For example:
By the end of 3rd grade, students will be able to:
(reading fluency standard)
- read a grade level text (if they are reading on grade level) with fluency and comprehension
- read slightly below grade level test (if they have mild learning disabilities)
- read at a primer level (if they have severe learning disabilities)
- begin to know letter-sound correspondences (if they have severe phonological disability)
- identify the front and back of a book (if they have never been in school before)
etc?
You would like to have different standards for every different ability? Or what exactly?
Do you think it is acceptable to tell parents of a child (or the child herself) that she has not yet mastered the benchmark standards for her grade, if the reason she hasn't yet made the standard is that she has a learning disability? That is, would you say a child who is in 5th grade, but is reading at a second grade level, should receive an A for 5th grade reading (or proficient, or whatever grade you are using) because she is doing the best she can?