You are not responsible for your Mother's feelings. And do not think she is responsible for yours.

For one thing ~ screen your calls. Manage what you are exposed to.

Why not set time aside - maybe every 3rd day for 15 minutes to listen to any of her messages/read anything she's written to you, and to respond.

Don't be available - all the time, any time.

Now don't tell her you're doing this.

Just establish a pattern that's reasonable for YOU since you know it takes a lot of patience. But likewise - don't be dependent on her either.

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like she's pushing, pushing, pushing and doesn't realize how manipulative she is being. I'm not sure pointing this out is going to do a lot of good, because she may read it as more rejection.

Maybe it would easier and more effective to manage her expectations. Maybe tell her how much you value her and want her in your life. Acknowledge that she wants pictures and news about her grandbaby. Explain that you are really, really busy on weekdays and are just keeping your head above water between working, cooking, cleaning, and being a parent. But you will call her and send some pictures every Saturday night (or whatever schedule will actually work for you). If she knows she's going to be hearing from you regularly and that you are sending her what she hopes for, she might feel less needy.

It sounds like she uses FB. Have you considered snapping little pictures each day and uploading them to your wall, or into your "family" circle on Google plus. My husband does this several days a week (he loves the Smartphone), and its a lot easier than sending pictures to several family members individually. We just put them up, and then others can decide how often they want to be tortured/delighted with our baby pictures.

Several PPs have suggested this, but I actually disagree. It sounds like what OP's mom wants is to feel that she has a special place as the grandma, not just that she gets to see the same pics OP posts for every other family member or her elementary school classmates and former coworkers on facebook. I'm not saying OP is obligated to do this, but just that the best way to try to placate her mom is to think about what she is really asking for. As OP pointed out, what she wants is validation. The actual pictures are almost meaningless unless she has more of them or more access than other people (especially OP's birth mom).

So I agree that very explicit boundaries should be set, in terms of how many times per week you will talk to her, how many pictures, etc. Yes, OP, it sucks to have to be so formal, but it sucks worse to have your relationship ruined b/c you are not on the same page. Also, the agreement you come up with should be the minimum she can expect to hear from you, and also the amount over which she cannot give you a hard time. But you can still get in touch with her randomly more often, just so the whole thing doesn't feel so much like a business transaction.

As far as what is reasonable for how often to interact with her, as PPs have said, it's up to you. I would say most women I know who have young children and who have a reasonably decent relationship with their out-of-town moms (which you may not have now, but hope to have) speak on the phone to their moms around 1-2x a week and text pictures about that often as well. Visits seem to depend on how helpful the mom is. My mom used to be super helpful with my kids and she would visit about once a month for 2-3 nights, which worked for all of us. Now (for many reasons) she is no longer as helpful, and she is more difficult to have around, but she still adores her grandchildren. SO we manage to stretch it to about every 6 weeks.

One final thought -- OP, have you considered trying to be even more secretive about your dealings with your birth mom? My mom acts kind of similarly about me spending time with my dad and stepmom, and I have finally started actively concealing it from her when we see them. I try not to lie to her outright, so if they have been in town for the weekend that is usually a "busy week at work" when I don't get to talk to my mom, and by the time I talk to her the "how was your weekend" conversation is forgotten. SUre it would be nice to be able to be truthful but that would require my mom being a different person, and in this life all I can do is try to get along with as little drama as possible. Sounds like you are doing the same, OP. Good luck.

this sounds like my mother!! it's awful to deal with.

the relationship between your mother and birth mother sounds like my mom with my mil. if they bought us a more expensive christmas gift than she did, she gets upset about it. if they know any information about us before she does, she is upset.

unfortunately, unless everything is on her terms and her way she creates a fight. she gets mad because i don't want to send her recipes of everything i cook, she gets mad if i don't tell her everything i buy when i go shopping, she gets mad if she is not the first to know every single thing. even if i tell my dad something assuming you know they live together and talk and communicate, she is mad because i didn't tell her.
it's exhausting. and i find her negative energy draining.

i don't have advice just that i can totally fully relate. my sisters solution to it is to be a doormat to my mom and give in to whatever my mom wants her to do. i wouldn't recommend that.

can your therapist work with the two of you to set up boundaries that you feel comfortable with? maybe that you only want to talk once or twice a week on the phone.

i've learned with my mom that she is just miserable and unhappy and she will always be mad about something. so even if i did everything on her terms, she would probably adjust the terms to find a new reason to be mad at me. i can't win. maybe your mom is the same way?

also, did you find the solo therapy helped you? i'm considering seeing a therapist myself and wondering if that will help or will there only be benefit if we are both in therapy.

It sounds like she's pushing, pushing, pushing and doesn't realize how manipulative she is being. I'm not sure pointing this out is going to do a lot of good, because she may read it as more rejection.

Maybe it would easier and more effective to manage her expectations. Maybe tell her how much you value her and want her in your life. Acknowledge that she wants pictures and news about her grandbaby. Explain that you are really, really busy on weekdays and are just keeping your head above water between working, cooking, cleaning, and being a parent. But you will call her and send some pictures every Saturday night (or whatever schedule will actually work for you). If she knows she's going to be hearing from you regularly and that you are sending her what she hopes for, she might feel less needy.

It sounds like she uses FB. Have you considered snapping little pictures each day and uploading them to your wall, or into your "family" circle on Google plus. My husband does this several days a week (he loves the Smartphone), and its a lot easier than sending pictures to several family members individually. We just put them up, and then others can decide how often they want to be tortured/delighted with our baby pictures.

OMG! I'm exhausted just reading this. I can't imagine the energy this requires in real life. I don't think you've done a good job defining what YOU are comfortable with and what you think is reasonable. I'm going to turn your questions back around on you.

How many times should I call her a week? How many times are you comfortable with and for how many minutes? FWIW I call my mom once a week on Sunday morning for @ 10 minutes.
How many pictures should I send her a week? How many times are you comfortable with?
How often should I visit? (she lives in atlanta and has offered to pay for the plane fare) How often can you endure a visit? My mom sees us twice about twice a year.

The thing about these things is that only you can say what's a healthy limit for you. It seems like you keep trying to view it from the perspective of your mother. Obviously, her needs are much greater than yours so you need to use your limit as the maximum limit. If you get some extra energy one day, you can always do a spontaneous call but that wouldn't obligate you to deviate from your agreed upon call on Sunday morning (for example). You many need to remind her about the schedule but you can always do more if you are so inclined.

I would also establish some healthy boundaries regarding information about your birth mother. It's not up for discussion. It's not your mother's business and if she wants to engage or discuss it, refuse to. If she insists, explain you are ending the phone call and you look forward to the next scheduled call.

I know it's hard but believe you me, what you're doing now is much more exhausting. Hugs.

Thanks all for the responses and for reading my long lengthy vent.

I have done therapy alone and together. We got the therapist after my birth mother decided to come to my wedding a few years ago, and the mother (that i'm referencing in the post) lost her absolute mind. The way she responded to my birth mother's decision to attend nearly ruined the entire wedding experience. I still cringe when I think about it.

The therapist is able to explain what I am saying in a successful manner. We have reached new levels of clarity as a result, but things are far from perfect.

She is very excited to be a grandmother! I think that is great. However she is very territorial if she catches wind that my birth mother may visit (approx once a year), the shit hits the fan. The need for validation ten folds, my phone doesnt stop buzzing with notifications and it takes weeks for some normalcy to return. Most recently she found pictures on my camera from birth moms visit and then there was a chorus of "you have more pictures of grandson and birthmom than me!" (another method of seeking validation is who has the most pictures with grandson).

Now the question, for those that recommend boundaries (i agree!) - what are good ones?
How many times should I call her a week?
How many pictures should I send her a week?
How often should I visit? (she lives in atlanta and has offered to pay for the plane fare)

I hate to formalize something that should be natural and fun, but I don't know what boundaries are appropriate. The constant deliberation of what I should do is exhausting.

Anonymous wrote:I'm sad for her. She's probably lonely and very excited about being a grandmother and feeling rejected. I know your feelings about her are probably complicated because of the nature of your relationship and you have to have some boundaries. My dad and the girlfriend he started seeing when I was around 12 years old were not around for me as a kid. But they are over the moon about my children and I figure I'm happy to let anyone in who wants to love them. So why not text her a photo once and awhile? It takes 10 seconds and would mean the world to her.

So do people just not read well, or do they willfully decide to ignore the OP, and post what they want? If you read even half the words OP typed, you'd see how OP is trying to have a relationship with the mother, but the mother demands more more more to the point of craziness.

Can you have a separate discussion with the therapist? Something clearly isn't right here with her, and you can't shoulder her burdens.

Discuss with therapist how to best present your boundaries. Draw up something in writing. Commit to something - I will talk to you once a week on the phone. I will send you pictures as I am able. Something.

But the rest of it - you have to be able to say, this is what I am doing for my vacation. I won't discuss it any longer, I love you, and goodbye (if she continues to press it). Read up on setting boundaries, and then set them, and if mother pushes past, shut her off. Teach her to respect your boundaries.

Some new grandmothers just don't get it.

OP, do you have a good relationship with her otherwise? I think you need to be kind but clear. Tell her that you love her and that you're glad she's in your life and in your child's life. And then tell her that between work and the baby, you're drowning right now. Tell her that you don't have the time and energy to meet all her expectations and that the combined effect of all the messages is stressing you and hurting your relationship with her. It makes you want to see and talk to her less, not more, and you don't want to feel that way about her.

Suggest some sort of regular communication: to expect to talk to you about once a week, to enjoy the photos that you do post to Facebook for all to see, to schedule a visit in whatever is your normal time frame. Tell her you hope it will get easier as the baby gets older, but what you need from her right now is understanding and compassion.

And what's with the mutual therapy sessions? I'd have a meeting with the therapist solo and talk about how to set healthy boundaries, but if these sessions aren't helping you in that relationship, don't spend your precious time there.

Realize too that what your stepmother is doing isn't healthy. It isn't healthy for her to put that much of her happiness on your ability to be in her life...you can have a good relationship that doesn't require all she's asking of you, if she would let it happen.

I'm sad for her. She's probably lonely and very excited about being a grandmother and feeling rejected. I know your feelings about her are probably complicated because of the nature of your relationship and you have to have some boundaries. My dad and the girlfriend he started seeing when I was around 12 years old were not around for me as a kid. But they are over the moon about my children and I figure I'm happy to let anyone in who wants to love them. So why not text her a photo once and awhile? It takes 10 seconds and would mean the world to her.

OP, have you tried writing a letter detailing the boundaries of your relationship? It will not go too well, but at least once it is out there, she can think about it on her own. Plus, it sounds like she needs you more than the other way around so she may realize she has to cool it.

Wow, I don't have any advice but just sympathy for you. This sounds horrible.

that was longer than i intended. apologies.

My mother is constantly seeking validation for our relationship. FWIW, she is not so much my mother as she as "mother figure". She came into my life when I was 14 and lived with my father. My birth mother and I have always had a distant and strained relationship. Prior to this she was a close family friend of many years.

Back to the point, she seeks validation by having me do things for her. Examples:
Send me a picture of grandson (she wants daily pictures)
Call me after grandson's appointment and tell me how it went
I didn't get a picture of grandson yet!
Why don't you ever post a picture of grandson on my facebook wall! You've never posted a picture on my wall!
When are you coming to visit, please come for a long time in x month.
I am his Grandmother, I want to be in grandson's life, you should send me a picture
Everyone gets pictures of their grandchildren (WTF is everyone, she lovvvves talking about everyone)
I.E. Everyone talks to their children daily (I hate talking on the phone)
Everyone vacations with their children (she thinks most if not all trips should include her)

Until recently she refused to book her own plane tickets to visit because "it was nice that I did it for her". Once I became pregnant, I put a firm stop on that. (I have enough to worry about).

We have a therapist that we see mutually (I do phone appointments with her). She has helped some, but unless she saw the therapist everyday I don't think it would eradicate this behavior.

When I won't give in to her requests ("It's not my job to send you a daily picture, call after every appointment, post on your facebook wall, my job is to be his mother"), the conversation spirals downward quickly.
Do you even want me in your life?
I am sad you do not want to be with me (I opted to go for a week with DH on a business trip to the bay area instead of to her house, not well received)
Do you want me to be DS's grandmother?
Do you love me?
etc.

I feel smothered. exhausted (working mom of 7 mo). and trapped in an endless cycle of her communications with me. I ignore them for days, but it just builds up and is right there waiting for me when I stop dodging her calls/texts/emails/facebook messages.

We do try to facetime occasionally when we have the energy. And we always make an effort to celebrate birthdays/mothers day etc. I just cant make this day in and day out effort that she wants/needs. She is single and lives alone with frankly too much time and too much money. Meanwhile, I'm trying to stay connected to my husband, raise the baby, juggle working (not to mention we are foster parents and occasionally balance those demands as well when we are needed). I'm tired at the end of the day (and sometimes the beginning...I also posted in the health forum about being exhausted all the time). Anyway, thanks for reading.