Sleep issues are tough with kids because it is generally not caused by something the kid has done - some kids just have a tough time calming their minds (especially ADHD kids). Things we try with our slightly old kid for the last few years -

1) go to bed earlier to give more time to wind down (my kid hates this, but it was recommended by a sleep doctor).

2) melatonin - helps only sometimes. I feel that it helps my kid stay asleep, but not fall asleep

3) changing sleep locations, especially to someplace cooler like the downstairs sofa. This seems to help a lot, but then I loose my tv .

4) let the kid read in another room (sleep doctor says that nothing should be done in bed except for sleeping). this seems to diffuse the situation, but does not really help the kid sleep.

You don't really mention whether this shift has had any major impact on her. Is she more tired during the day? Finding it harder to wake up? More grumpy/moody? If not, it could very well just be that she's not needing quite as much sleep any more.

OP here.

I appreciate the thoughts and suggestions. She was such a champion sleeper as a little kid, that we haven't had to be too strict about bedtime routines, etc. Allowed us as parents to get lazy, I guess.

She has both a journal and a diary, but I don't think she has written in either since the initial novelty wore off. I have suggested to her that she might want to start using them, as I find if I write down what's swirling around in my head, I sleep better. We'll see if we can find her diary over the weekend and at least make it more available to her.

She is both creative and intelligent. Both of those traits suffer though if she doesn't get enough sleep. And I've done enough reading over the years on the importance of sleep to know that even a small daily deficit can have have a big impact.

I've committed to spending the time between dinner and bedtime hanging out with her (and making sure she gets her stuff done), giving her time to chat with me.

Being in third grade, there is a lot of girl drama. Although she knows that much of it is silly, it still hurts her when a friend gives her the silent treatment for an afternoon. I remember similar things from that age (can't recall when it stopped) and remember how painful it was. And I think she is going through the normal growing pains of wanting to be more adult and still wanting the snuggles and perks for being little. Extra difficult since she is super tall and looks more like an eleven or twelve year old. And she has a new homeroom teacher (back from maternity leave), and a new extended day teacher, so there's a bit of flux on the school front, too.

Screen time - she gets to play on the iPod for maybe thirty minutes before dinner. The only other screen time during the week is whatever they do during the school day.

Physical activity: she gets a pretty good dose of outdoor or gym time every day at school and extended day. She is generally a sweaty mess by the time I pick her up. Our weekends have not been as outdoorsy of late, due to the weather and home projects. Looking forward to spring, the return of soccer and bike rides.

Most of the tidying up needs to be done after the shower, as it is putting her dirty clothes in the hamper and hanging up her towels.

DH are determined to follow some improved routines morning and evening until at least spring break to see if they make a difference.

Anonymous wrote:DD used to be a great sleeper. Sometime in the last year that changed. She has a really hard time falling asleep now. I think it is because her mind is super-active and she just isn't letting herself slow down. She is frequently still awake two hours after lights out.

Any tips and tricks for helping her wind down and get to sleep? On my list of things to try is an actual routine, accompanied/supervised by me so she doesn't get off track (shower, lavender lotion, brush teeth, brush hair, straighten bathroom and bedroom, pick clothes for next day, then her choice of chatting, reading, writing, or meditation CD).

Any underlying conditions we should be looking for?

Other ideas?

Tire her out and try more energy burning activities during the day?

Anonymous wrote:DD used to be a great sleeper. Sometime in the last year that changed. She has a really hard time falling asleep now. I think it is because her mind is super-active and she just isn't letting herself slow down. She is frequently still awake two hours after lights out.

I have been like this for as long as I can remember -- it drove my mom nuts when I was growing up. First, let me try to reassure you a little bit that it doesn't necessarily have to do with an underlying condition. I mean, it might since you say this is a change for her, and if your gut is saying something's up you definitely know best. But, it could also be totally normal and just the way she is. From what little you have posted, I would venture a guess that she is likely a very creative and intelligent child, which are both traits that will serve her well if cultivated and used properly.

Some thoughts/things to try:
- As a PP suggested, definitely talk to her and see if something stressful is going on. I always used nighttime to think about whatever stress or problems were in my life and try to come up with a plan to deal with it, so if this is what she does as well maybe your input can help.
- Depending on your family rules/schedule, would you consider giving her a journal and a pen to put by her bed so when she has that middle of the night brilliant idea she can write it down and then let it go and go to sleep? All through high school and college, I would go to bed frustrated by some paper I was stuck on and then wake up in the middle of the darn night (lol, can you tell that annoyed me?) with the perfect point or paragraph or whatever. If I had to actually turn on the light, get up, go find paper, and write down whatever it was, then my sleep was broken and I was pretty much awake for the day. Once I had a journal I could just grab off the table and scribble in by the light of my phone*, I got way better sleep.
- Try doing a no electronics policy or quiet time for about the half hour before bed.
-If nothing is working, and this is feasible based on your family schedule, move her bedtime back by an hour. Problem solved -- she stays awake like usual and still gets enough sleep.
- If all else fails, leave the situation as it is. She will eventually either get used to the amount of sleep she's getting or learn to go to sleep slightly faster. In the interest of full disclosure, though, and so you don't expect a miracle, I should warn you that I did the former and now just get by on less sleep.


* OK, the phone reference might not apply since I was a bit older than 9 at the time. Maybe a small reading light, like the type you can clip onto books might work better at her age depending on how you feel about electronics for kids.

Hope that helped

I would do the tidying up b/f the shower, etc. Have you been limiting screen time? Screen time is stimulating even if it seems passive. I'd ask your pediatrician about melatonin.

Also, you might want to look into if something's stressing her out in general or specifically. Pressures on kids mount as they get older--academically, socially. Maybe she's feeling overwhelmed by something.

DD used to be a great sleeper. Sometime in the last year that changed. She has a really hard time falling asleep now. I think it is because her mind is super-active and she just isn't letting herself slow down. She is frequently still awake two hours after lights out.

Any tips and tricks for helping her wind down and get to sleep? On my list of things to try is an actual routine, accompanied/supervised by me so she doesn't get off track (shower, lavender lotion, brush teeth, brush hair, straighten bathroom and bedroom, pick clothes for next day, then her choice of chatting, reading, writing, or meditation CD).

Any underlying conditions we should be looking for?

Other ideas?