Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone even care about perfume around the baby until 2000 or so?

Not the point. You're missing the forest for the trees.

+100
This is about control. Grandma is testing. You could take out "perfume" and substitute any number of other things. OP and her husband need to establish the ground rules, which are that grandma must accept the rules of engagement, or not see them.

Agree with other that there has been some great advice posted here. Useful for many people in similar situations.

Anonymous wrote:Did anyone even care about perfume around the baby until 2000 or so?

Not the point. You're missing the forest for the trees.

Did anyone even care about perfume around the baby until 2000 or so?

Anonymous wrote:OP, your baby is only 12 days old. You're in the thick of newborn life and recovery. My opinion? No one gets to come over who stresses out a new mama. And if that includes canceling a Thanksgiving invitation (or RSVP), so be it.

Take the time to take care of yourself, so you can deal with everything else. Just dealing with new motherhood is already a lot, and you might need a few/several weeks away from your mom until you've got yourself together.

What was your schedule like seeing your mom pre-baby or pre-pregnancy? You might try going back to that level of frequency. And the next time she calls asking to come over that day, say you need more advance notice and would prefer no same day drop-ins (especially if that wasn't your norm before).

+1. OP, except for the drug-addicted father, I could have written your post, right down to moving out at 17. This --"while it is still not a good idea for us to spend a lot of time together, we could maintain a surface level, acquaintance like relationship for major events and holidays " -- describes us exactly.

I had a child last year, so can relate. My mother, thankfully, did not comment on breastfeeding (at least not to my face) but does make other comments (e.g., my child doesn't know the Sesame Street characters on her diapers because I don't let her want TV, just stupid stuff like that). For me, I had to limit the time spent with my mother. It's the only way for me. You're SO early post-partum. I severely limited all visitors during the first few weeks (and months). I agree with the poster who said new mothers are sacred and whoever adds stress/agida cannot be around you. While I give props to the people who can shove someone out the door if they acted up, I could not do that. Like I said, for me, I just limited the time, but did not completely cut off the relationship. How you limit the time is up to you. I made it about me, not my mother (e.g., I wouldn't say she couldn't come over because her perfume is bad for the baby, I'd say I wasn't up for visitors like a PP suggested, or maybe that the perfume was bothering me with my heightened post-partum sense of smell). It's a pain, and I wish I had a different mother, but I don't. Also, unbeknownst to her, she will never be alone with my child. Ever.

Good luck and congrats!

I have a difficult MIL (not abusive , just difficult) and I banned her from the house for the first month or two. Just too much stress. Once I was out of the difficult first few weeks and crazy hormones I was much better able to deal with her. You are totally justified in taking a break for now - if you want you can resume later.

Anonymous wrote:If your DH is wiling, he may get a different response from your mom than you. She's playing a game she thinks she can win with you. If her son in law opens the door, sniffs the perfume, and says "Thanks for stopping by but we can't have such perfumes around the baby. You're welcome to come back when you've had a chance to wash it off." and closes the door, she has to respond differently.

My FIL also plays a lot of abusive games but he also knows his BS lease is short with me. He just can't get under my skin in the same way because we don't have the history. So for now he's decided not to be a guest in our home, but that's his call. I went out of my way to make him welcome, but I couldn't accommodate his abuse and he's made his priorities clear. We still see him and communicate with him as much as we can, but I doubt he'll be in our home again for years to come. Interestingly, I still have a good relationship with him - I think abusive people know, on some level, that they're out of control.

That is a really interesting insight about control. My abusive relative has a good relationship with family members/ in laws who have simply shut her down, no coddling. But the ones who try to "meet her halfway" are the ones she is craziest to.

OP, your baby is only 12 days old. You're in the thick of newborn life and recovery. My opinion? No one gets to come over who stresses out a new mama. And if that includes canceling a Thanksgiving invitation (or RSVP), so be it.

Take the time to take care of yourself, so you can deal with everything else. Just dealing with new motherhood is already a lot, and you might need a few/several weeks away from your mom until you've got yourself together.

What was your schedule like seeing your mom pre-baby or pre-pregnancy? You might try going back to that level of frequency. And the next time she calls asking to come over that day, say you need more advance notice and would prefer no same day drop-ins (especially if that wasn't your norm before).

If your DH is wiling, he may get a different response from your mom than you. She's playing a game she thinks she can win with you. If her son in law opens the door, sniffs the perfume, and says "Thanks for stopping by but we can't have such perfumes around the baby. You're welcome to come back when you've had a chance to wash it off." and closes the door, she has to respond differently.

My FIL also plays a lot of abusive games but he also knows his BS lease is short with me. He just can't get under my skin in the same way because we don't have the history. So for now he's decided not to be a guest in our home, but that's his call. I went out of my way to make him welcome, but I couldn't accommodate his abuse and he's made his priorities clear. We still see him and communicate with him as much as we can, but I doubt he'll be in our home again for years to come. Interestingly, I still have a good relationship with him - I think abusive people know, on some level, that they're out of control.

OP, my MIL was like this. It got worse and worse until finally after a trip to the hospital with the then 3 year old, I said, enough. It is OK to say enough. It is OK to set a boundary and stick to it. My MIL was angry and abusive to the grand children no matter what I or my DH said or did. What I said was, "It would be better if you and DH had some private time together, iwhout the children"

OP here - thanks all, for the advice.

00:40 - I do have a DH - we normally just deal with our own families because the dynamics are different in both. (My mom would never call him but the family member I am with the most is my sister, so it never mattered.)

00:54 - I had hoped that as well. Good point about DS following my example. I want to model forgiveness and patience, but this may be one of those times when safety wins out.

00:57 - Thanks for sharing your DH's experience. Draining is the right word. I have fought her and won the right to my peace of mind before - it just feels like it all went out the window with the baby. I guess I need to think about how much stress and energy I spend on retraining. I'm 13 days PP and there is enough to juggle.

04:33 - I know, they are wise. Thanksgiving is going to be interesting this year.

Anonymous wrote:OP, what is really curious to me is, even if your request were utterly trivial, since it could jeopardize access to the grandchild, you would think she would do it, right? Well, the thing is, she thinks there is no danger of that. You have to set her straight.

How you set the tone here would probably save you loads of stress in the future. As a matter of fact, you *should* make trivial requests, and until she complies fully, the grandma/mom relationship is still rocky, given your past history.

My DH had a similarly abusive mother. He recognizes that she can be a good grandma but a piss-poor mother, but for the sake of his sanity, he lays down the law. And does make trivial requests. Oh boy, there was kicking and screaming in the beginning. She threatened to kill herself. She thought her boy was bluffing. Uh, no. Then she got scared because we basically gave her the impression that we didn't give a shit if she offed herself. Now she rarely acts up, but he has to be on guard. He has to be like a drill sergeant.

You are in for a world of stress if you let this woman run roughshod back into your life. Please, please, please train her, like the mean dog that she is. Some people only respond to pain and authority figures. My DH can be that figure, but he finds it very draining. He can only take her in limited doses.

If he were in your shoes, he would tell her, "if you show up with perfume one more time, you are not setting foot in my house. Do you understand?" She will show up with perfume (of course, right?), and after one whiff, he will shut the door in her face and lock it. Ignore knocking until she drives away. If she is already in the house, evict her. There has been an occasion when I had to physically push my MIL out of the house. She was refusing to leave.

If this all sounds like something that is not up your alley, then your alternative is probably her continuous critical and crazy comments, her perfume, and it may even encompass more serious stuff like her sneaking formula down your baby's throat while you are not looking.

So, in answer to your question, no you are not being too harsh. If the fight over boundaries is not something you are willing to engage in, then you should probably cut your losses.

But MIL does seem to love her granddaughter very much. Some of the craziest, abusive mothers are halfway decent grandmothers. It's weird like that.

OP--print this post out and copy it. Hang it on you bathroom mirrors and put it by your bedside. Read it every day and more. These are very wise words.

OP, what is really curious to me is, even if your request were utterly trivial, since it could jeopardize access to the grandchild, you would think she would do it, right? Well, the thing is, she thinks there is no danger of that. You have to set her straight.

How you set the tone here would probably save you loads of stress in the future. As a matter of fact, you *should* make trivial requests, and until she complies fully, the grandma/mom relationship is still rocky, given your past history.

My DH had a similarly abusive mother. He recognizes that she can be a good grandma but a piss-poor mother, but for the sake of his sanity, he lays down the law. And does make trivial requests. Oh boy, there was kicking and screaming in the beginning. She threatened to kill herself. She thought her boy was bluffing. Uh, no. Then she got scared because we basically gave her the impression that we didn't give a shit if she offed herself. Now she rarely acts up, but he has to be on guard. He has to be like a drill sergeant.

You are in for a world of stress if you let this woman run roughshod back into your life. Please, please, please train her, like the mean dog that she is. Some people only respond to pain and authority figures. My DH can be that figure, but he finds it very draining. He can only take her in limited doses.

If he were in your shoes, he would tell her, "if you show up with perfume one more time, you are not setting foot in my house. Do you understand?" She will show up with perfume (of course, right?), and after one whiff, he will shut the door in her face and lock it. Ignore knocking until she drives away. If she is already in the house, evict her. There has been an occasion when I had to physically push my MIL out of the house. She was refusing to leave.

If this all sounds like something that is not up your alley, then your alternative is probably her continuous critical and crazy comments, her perfume, and it may even encompass more serious stuff like her sneaking formula down your baby's throat while you are not looking.

So, in answer to your question, no you are not being too harsh. If the fight over boundaries is not something you are willing to engage in, then you should probably cut your losses.

But MIL does seem to love her granddaughter very much. Some of the craziest, abusive mothers are halfway decent grandmothers. It's weird like that.

I would like to think (and hoped your post would go this way but it didn't) that she, like many parents, viewed becoming a grandparent as an opportunity to do-over, to a certain degree, some parenting. Perhaps (and yes, I realize I am making excuses for her here) she wants to do that, but is nervous, so her stand-by, bitchy side is what's coming through.

Regardless, I feel like pregnant women and new mothers are sacred, and anyone giving a pregnant woman or new mother stress/agida needs to go the hell away.

OP, set clear and firm boundaries, and stick to them. "Mom, in order for you to be welcome around me and the new baby, you need to not wear heavy scents, and not make comments about breastfeeding. When you make comments about weight or bring formula, that is passive-aggressive and quite bluntly, I don't need that shit now and since I'm an adult I don't have to put up with it anymore, so I won't. If you do these things, we will promptly invite you to leave. Please take as much time as you need to come to a decision. We would love for you to be an active participant in Benny's life, but will understand if you feel you can't."

And then you really MUST stand up and SHOW HER THE DOOR if she shows up wearing perfume or at the first comment about nursing. She will throw a temper tantrum and say all sorts of awful things, and then will leave, and calm down eventually and come to respect your boundaries.

You are a new mother and don't need that shit. People will try to walk all over your child throughout his life, and you will need to teach him how to stand up for himself, both by being an example he can follow and by talking through situations. Start with your mother.

You need to take a break. Are you married or is the baby's father in the picture? If so, hopefully he can run interference for you. I would tell her you are taking a break from having anyone over - say it is the doctor's advice or DH's wish or whatever. You need some space to figure out what to do. A therapist may be able to help you. And, if necessary keep your distance. You get to decide what is best for your baby and for you. Her efforts do not give her the right to undermine you. It's ok to say no to the pain - really.

My mother and I never had a good relationship. She was an abusive parent (verbally mostly, physically sometimes) and it took a lot to deal with her when I was younger. I know she struggled with depression, and dealing with my physically abusive, drug addicted father, but even with that understanding it's hard to forgive a lot that happened then. (Not to spill too many personal details, but it was bad enough that friends from middle school remember her as scary/crazy, a group of my teachers in high school had a meeting and planned to help me with another place to live and legal emancipation, and I finally moved out at 17 for good.)

Over the years, I cut her off and stopped talking to her, but in the last decade she's tried to be more conciliatory and to make overtures at repairing our relationship. Since she appeared to be sincere, I also engaged in good faith, and while it is still not a good idea for us to spend a lot of time together, we could maintain a surface level, acquaintance like relationship for major events and holidays.

Then I got pregnant.

Mom seemed to be really excited about the pregnancy and even wanted to be there for the babies birth. But now, the other side of her is starting to show. The baby is twelve days old, and she insists on coming over completely covered in a heavy, cloying perfume. I asked her not to wear it to the hospital, and she did, so I assumed in all the excitement she just forgot. When she came over to visit, I noticed the smell (it's so strong it comes through the front door) and asked her why she chose to wear the perfume. She said "it was just a spritz, stop being so picky!" I told her what the doctors said about strong and heavy scents around the newborn, and reminded her that I struggled with allergies my whole life, so there is a good chance the baby will have the same problems. (I've had severe pollen and scent allergies since childhood - never got proper medical treatment for them until I was an adult and in charge of my own life.) I pointed out how the doctors asked for everything we use on the baby to be as natural and unscented as possible, how I don't have perfumes or strongly scented items in the house, and how he has a good chance of inheriting my allergies if we are not careful.

So today, she asks to come over and I told her she is welcome to come by as long as she doesn't wear her usual perfume (this was the 3rd time I asked her in 12 days). Her reply was "whatever, get over it." And I went off and told her that if she valued her perfume over her grandson's health, then she wouldn't get to see him.

So here's the thing- to me, this is a really petty thing to have a fight over. And yet, it's kind of indicative of my life with my mom, that she doesn't care about anyone's comfort or needs but her own and she's also good at ignoring what other people say. She's made a lot of derogatory comments about breastfeeding and that my almost 8 lb child is "too small" going so far as to bring over cans of Similac. If we didn't have the history we do , I would just think she was uninformed about raising kids these days (she also makes a lot of comments about spoiling the baby by holding and feeding him too much). But a lot of what she is saying or doing triggers memories from my past. And it honestly feels like I am sliding down a familiar, slippery slope where she feels entitled to do whatever she wants, regardless of what I say or do. The way I dealt with it before was by not dealing with her at all - but she clearly wants to have some kind of relationship with the baby even if she's not willing to give up her perfume for it.

Am I being too harsh? Or do I just need to cut my losses with this relationship?