Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing Deal has 'tracks" for is math.Otherwise veryone takes the same courses. By the reasoning above, why would it then be okay to separate out for HS. Many counties have magnet MS- some could be for arts like Ellington. They could have different focuses. i wouldn't rule it out. Right now DCPS has few MS options.

Less of a problem when you have a school with 40% advanced readers and nearly everone at least at grade level.

Actually, it's kind of a problem even in that setting. Our DC is horrifically bored in English class at Deal, which has students at Lexile ranges from the 300s to the 1500s (or, put another way, grade-level-equivalents from 1st grade to graduate school). I can't imagine what it's like in a school with more low performers.

Anonymous wrote:The only thing Deal has 'tracks" for is math.Otherwise veryone takes the same courses. By the reasoning above, why would it then be okay to separate out for HS. Many counties have magnet MS- some could be for arts like Ellington. They could have different focuses. i wouldn't rule it out. Right now DCPS has few MS options.

Theories of child development. Of course development is never done and bridges to cross keep being important throughout life; but agreement is that with entry into HS academic trajectories have somewhat gelled and are less discontinuous than in elementary and middle school.

Anonymous wrote:I think application middle schools that would follow the application high schools like Banneker, SWW or Ellington would be a great idea. They would have to be smaller than their HS counterparts, so 8th graders who did not attend one of the magnets could still have opportunity to apply to the HS. There's no reason not to have these options in MS and only in HS.

No need for improved DCPS middle.schools when we have charters.

Love, Kaya Henderson

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a problem in DC as well. Only a few middle schools have the appropriate coursework to make a student eligible for the competitive high schools. And those middle schools are neighborhood schools which restrict enrollment to a certain geographic area unless you are lucky in a lottery. Completely unjust and unfair. Test-in middle schools would be more fair by testing academic aptitude rather than just achievement

Technically, no. Students will come out of Latin, Basis, Kipp, and Howard Math/Science equally prepared.

Disagree because, in most cases, high SES plus good school trumps low SES plus good school. Too many kids needing remedial work are in classes at all these schools for the best students to be as well prepared as those at Deal. The only real differentiation on the list is for math at BASIS. And even the strongest Deal kids aren't keeping up the MS test-in magnet crowed in Fairfax and MoCo.

Anonymous wrote:The only thing Deal has 'tracks" for is math.Otherwise veryone takes the same courses. By the reasoning above, why would it then be okay to separate out for HS. Many counties have magnet MS- some could be for arts like Ellington. They could have different focuses. i wouldn't rule it out. Right now DCPS has few MS options.

Less of a problem when you have a school with 40% advanced readers and nearly everone at least at grade level.

The only thing Deal has 'tracks" for is math.Otherwise veryone takes the same courses. By the reasoning above, why would it then be okay to separate out for HS. Many counties have magnet MS- some could be for arts like Ellington. They could have different focuses. i wouldn't rule it out. Right now DCPS has few MS options.

Anonymous wrote:I think application middle schools that would follow the application high schools like Banneker, SWW or Ellington would be a great idea. They would have to be smaller than their HS counterparts, so 8th graders who did not attend one of the magnets could still have opportunity to apply to the HS. There's no reason not to have these options in MS and only in HS.

Yes, there is. Or at least there is an argument for it. The argument is that students develop at their own pace, often even on different trajectories in reading and math. This is why there is no separation in elementary school. You'll hear countless stories of students who did so-so in elementary but all of a sudden 'got it' in middle. And the reverse, of students who aren't getting it in elementary but then suddenly do in middle school. Add to that the often different developments in reading and math, and you can easily see that separating students at age 10 into 'you get it' and 'you don't so much' may not serve most students well. European models doing just that are heavily debated and have struggled to develop pathways to cross over.
IMHO, if some sort of separation is called for at that age, a much more promising model for middle school is the differentiation or tracking under one and the same roof, so that students can enroll in regular or advanced options flexibly. Some may be consistently advanced on all subjects, others only in some subjects; some may start off regular, then move on to advanced, and vice versa. You'll find this practiced in various forms at Stuart-Hobson and Hardy, and Deal also I believe. It can be a little confusing to investigate it all because of a flux in terminology, some politically accepted and some not so much. And you'll want to check what's truly behind it, whether they are models in name only or also in practice.

I think application middle schools that would follow the application high schools like Banneker, SWW or Ellington would be a great idea. They would have to be smaller than their HS counterparts, so 8th graders who did not attend one of the magnets could still have opportunity to apply to the HS. There's no reason not to have these options in MS and only in HS.

Agreed. The Charter sector evens the playing field, but those are lottery slots, too.

Anonymous wrote:This is a problem in DC as well. Only a few middle schools have the appropriate coursework to make a student eligible for the competitive high schools. And those middle schools are neighborhood schools which restrict enrollment to a certain geographic area unless you are lucky in a lottery. Completely unjust and unfair. Test-in middle schools would be more fair by testing academic aptitude rather than just achievement

Technically, no. Students will come out of Latin, Basis, Kipp, and Howard Math/Science equally prepared.

Anonymous wrote:This is a problem in DC as well. Only a few middle schools have the appropriate coursework to make a student eligible for the competitive high schools. And those middle schools are neighborhood schools which restrict enrollment to a certain geographic area unless you are lucky in a lottery. Completely unjust and unfair. Test-in middle schools would be more fair by testing academic aptitude rather than just achievement

The key to this is creating a series of regional magnet elementary schools. That builds capacity for the higher levels of schooling. It is what is done in NYC and also the high-performing jurisdictions surrounding DC.

This is a problem in DC as well. Only a few middle schools have the appropriate coursework to make a student eligible for the competitive high schools. And those middle schools are neighborhood schools which restrict enrollment to a certain geographic area unless you are lucky in a lottery. Completely unjust and unfair. Test-in middle schools would be more fair by testing academic aptitude rather than just achievement

good luck testing into Stuyvessant if you haven't either come from the "right" middle school or the right "cram school" for prep

Anonymous wrote:I've seen this concept surface in a couple of threads now--to my knowledge there isn't one, has there been serious discussion of such a school--such as a test-in or selective application math science magnet or test in humanities magnet school? seems like it would make a lot of sense and there is demand. And there are ways you could ensure some representation from less-good schools to try to address the disparities that would arise because some kids don't have the same elementary school education.

From my experience trying to identify potential at 5th grade is less inequitable than at high school. By that time it is way too late, a basically smart kid has a way tougher time overcoming the substantive gap that the lack of a strong middle school education leads to.

Thoughts?

It doesn't seem to be a problem in NYC or in Fairfax County. Students test-in for the top schools like Stuyvesant or in FCPS for TJ.

http://schools.nyc.gov/Accountability/resources/testing/SHSAT.htm

I've seen this concept surface in a couple of threads now--to my knowledge there isn't one, has there been serious discussion of such a school--such as a test-in or selective application math science magnet or test in humanities magnet school? seems like it would make a lot of sense and there is demand. And there are ways you could ensure some representation from less-good schools to try to address the disparities that would arise because some kids don't have the same elementary school education.

From my experience trying to identify potential at 5th grade is less inequitable than at high school. By that time it is way too late, a basically smart kid has a way tougher time overcoming the substantive gap that the lack of a strong middle school education leads to.

Thoughts?