The reality is that your BIL is likely quite safe. Unless he has a history of aggression or has completely lost touch with reality he isn't at higher risk to hurt you. It sounds like while quite delusional, he is still in touch with reality as well. Being mentally ill doesn't make you dangerous. It does make one unpredictable, irrational and disorganized but not necessarily unsafe.

Is it mostly his irrational thinking that is scaring you OP or do you have any reason to believe he might act aggressively and hurt someone?

OP, I don't think there is a perfect solution here. I think the suggestion to stay in a hotel is the best of your limited options. DH's parents may be a little hurt by that, it's true, but I'd be gently honest with them about it - you'd love to stay with them, but just don't feel comfortable having your kids there overnight with BIL, yet still want to celebrate the holidays with the everyone. The safety and security of your family comes before your MIL's feelings.

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like maybe because you are the ones with kids you are going to have to be the ones to break the silence and bring the illness out in the open.

Depending on how old your kids are you can tell them that Uncle Bob's brain works differently and sometimes he says things that sound kind of silly or that don't make sense.

Thanks. Last year I had to explain this to my 6 year old when BIL gave him a "homemade coloring book" with pretty disturbing drawings in it. Forgot to add that he draws and paints a lot -- these also are a window into what is going on with him. Again, disturbing.

It sounds like maybe because you are the ones with kids you are going to have to be the ones to break the silence and bring the illness out in the open.

Depending on how old your kids are you can tell them that Uncle Bob's brain works differently and sometimes he says things that sound kind of silly or that don't make sense.

OP here. Thanks, all. Unfortunately they are rather remotely located and there are few hotel options. I think we could probably find something 20-30 mins away. That said, they are about 2.5 hours from us, and DH has suggested that we just go for the day. I am wondering if that would be worse than staying in a hotel.

Pp here with mentally ill uncle. I think staying in a hotel is sthing yr dh should agree to. Is there one with a pool? You can say it is a treat for the kids.

Anonymous wrote:He's clearly mentally ill. He's probably been diagnosed if he was able to qualify for disability.

He is single and sick. he needs to be able to stay with his mother at Christmas if he wants. You shouldn't say that she has to exclude him in order for you to come. That would be cruel.

Stay in a hotel or at another relative's. let dh visit mom and bro while you take kids to play with their cousins.

OP here: to be clear--I would never give my MIL an ultimatum. That's her son and I would never put her in the position of choosing one child over another, ie, my DH and us. Also to be clear--my BIL treats my ILs like sh*t and uses them for money. Very possible this is part of an illness, but it happens all the same. He never seeks them out otherwise and it is generally not his idea to visit. He doesn't love too far from them, has no job, and he still sees them only twice a year. She is on him from October to plan a Christmas visit--he needs the convincing.

My kids have no cousins on that side. None of DH's siblings have kids. It's just them and a bunch of adults. Which is fine and fun in many ways, but there are no other kids to play with.

I suggested to DH that we stay in a hotel but he is convinced MIL and FIL will take great offense. I can see how they would, but I think it might be a good compromise. Not much I can do during the day, though, when BIL tells my kids that TV is controlling their minds.

Agree with 23:06. Have your husband tell his mother that BIL makes you both uncomfortable because of the kids. Then do what you have to do. Sad situation, OP.

23.01 here. Yes, I agree with pp. he sounds like my uncle. As kids we knew he had issues and dealt with it fine. As my then four year old cousin one matter of factly told the stranger standing next to him in the grocery line, "sometimes my uncle x has fits."

He doesn't sound bipolar. He sounds like he has a thought disorder more like schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder.

He's clearly mentally ill. He's probably been diagnosed if he was able to qualify for disability.

He is single and sick. he needs to be able to stay with his mother at Christmas if he wants. You shouldn't say that she has to exclude him in order for you to come. That would be cruel.

Stay in a hotel or at another relative's. let dh visit mom and bro while you take kids to play with their cousins.

OP here. Thanks, posters. It's a very confusing situation--we vascillate between thinking he is ill and like this is just his personality. If it is an illness, it is definitely untreated. I have a bipolar family member so I know what bipolar can look like--MIL insists BIL is but I'm not so sure. I feel for BIL, I really do but he is so beastly to my DH and causes DH so much pain--I try not to be angry bc I know it is a possibility that this is a true illness. But when I am around him I really get the sense that he is really just self-actualizing--that he has no idea who he really is and this is something that works for him now. I don't know, and I guess I need to accept that I may not. Regardless, his behavior is the same and cause for concern. Sigh. That's PP for the great suggestions on what to say to MIL. I dread this but I know if I don't and we go and it is as it has been in the past I will be so regretful and nervous. Not a great holiday for my kids, at the very least.

Exactly that way. Why would you *not* say that out loud. "MIL, we love our Christmas visits to your home. However, last year's visit was unbearable as a result of BIL's instability. I understand that he is your son and that you want the best for him and believe the best of him, but I feel the same about my own children and it isn't healthy or safe for them to be around such an unstable and volatile adult. For this reason, we will not make our travel plans to visit you unless and until we know that BIL will not be staying with you at the same time. If you decline to inform us of his travel plans or are upset with us for feeling this way and don't want us to visit, we totally understand, just let us know and we will make alternate plans for the holiday."

He sounds more mentally ill than in a cult. The New Age thing in combination with everything else sounds less like a life philosophy and more like a delusion.

If he is mentally ill and undiagnosed and untreated then he is likely quite volatile and unpredictable. That doesn't make him a beast that makes him sick.

I would tell MIL flat out you aren't comfortable having the kids around him when he is so unwell and unstable. Point out the illness factors. I wouldn't talk about the cult aspect - stay factual about how he is unpredictable and volatile and unstable. Frame it as illness not as a personal attack on his character or on hers for enabling him.

My BIL (DH's brother) is 31 and descending further and further into a kind of New Age madness. He's been aimless since a teen and has in the past couple of years discovered their cult-y thing about the "ascension" and white light and altering your DNA. He thinks he can bend spoons with his mind and remove flouride from water by touching the glass. He's entirely narcissistic and wants to talk only about his cobbled-together belief system, why you should hop on the train with him, and how you will know no happiness until you do so. It's not just annoying it's also frightening. His FB posts have gotten increasingly bizarre and troublesome. He is chronically unemployed and getting SSI for some condition MIL either doesnt know or won't disclose, she only says he has "bad mood swings." He refuses meds, if this is the case. She is in complete denial about the fact that he is getting more and more unstable. We see him once a year at Christmas and last year was almost unbearable. I was so nervous I kept the kids in one bedroom with me and locked the door at night. This year promises to be worse, based on the crazy FB stuff and DH's conversations with him, in which BIL gets defensive and attacks DH of DH says something as innocuous as, "Can we talk about something else?" I recently read an article about cults, and a lot of the language he uses, as well as his behavior, seemed similar. Not saying he's in a cult, but it gave me pause.

So here's my issue: we always visit ILs for the holidays, either before or after depending on various factors. DH has other siblings who we want to see--they love a distance and we look forward to the kids seeing them, too. Neither DH or I wants to see BIL. His appearance is alarming; he has no idea what kind of subjects are appropriate in front of little kids, and his presents are frightening and crazy. And, without fail, there is some big epic meltdown with the parents--he essentially blames them for every "misery" he has encountered and all the "bad energy" he has experienced. IL's are not perfect, but this is way over the top. He has no filter when this happens. My older son is now of an age where he most definitely will understand what is being said, from the preachy-crazy sh*t to the super-drama. It's just AWFUL. We want to avoid telling MIL that we want to plan out visit around BIL, to spare her feelings but also because I have NO DOUBT she will tell him this. My question is: should we just be honest with her anyway? We know other siblings' travel plans but are waiting to hear BIL's. They always book his train tickets because he has no money--and no job, so he should be flexible--so DH wants to just be up front and say, book it so we can work around it. I feel for her, even thought she absolutely feeds this beats literally and figuratively--she is AN ENABLER and her denial causes anxiety for everyone in the family. Sorry for this long post--I am just so sad about this and have tried over the years with DH to get BIL some help and direction in life. There's just so much we can do, but I honestly am afraid of his volatility and do not want my family spending the night in the same house with him. How could I possibly say this out loud???