Anonymous wrote:Just a comment. I am chair of a CSE/CPSE and we DO NOT tell parents that low scores are fine just so they won't ask for services. That is an inaccurate and unethical thing to even suggest. What's more important to look at is the confidence interval..these is the range of scores that is automatically built into each composite score...if a child's confidence interval suggests the probability that on any given day the child could score as high as say, 98, then that is an average score....don't concern yourself as much with the actual score...therefore, average indicates no problem. We want children to be successful....that's why we do what we do. It's not to balance a bottom line, which is an unfortunate myth....

NP here. That's nice of you but my child's IEP team is not so pure hearted. They basically said all her scores are average so she isn't showing educational impact. It doesn't matter if she doesn't talk in school. It's not that important for learning at the preschool level.

OP here. We did not get the IEP. Despite reports from a sped teacher that is part of the school about varying test results on different days and an inability to remember letters that were remembered for a few days in a row earlier. And despite them having all kinds of other reports like the neuropsych. We have now hired an advocate to help. I was also told it is "easier" to get an IEP thru the school than thru Child Find so we will request another meeting when she is registered with the school next month. It seems like a shell game.

Anonymous wrote:As a parent you have a right to refuse IEP/sped services even if it goes against the recommendation of the MDT. However, think carefully about whether you're refusing services for your child's best interest or your own biases. An IEP need not be a life sentence, and in an inclusion environment may not involve much if any pullout from general education, but can ensure accommodations and services as needed.

Who's talking about refusing services? The OP said she was worried that she wouldn't get any IEP.

As a parent you have a right to refuse IEP/sped services even if it goes against the recommendation of the MDT. However, think carefully about whether you're refusing services for your child's best interest or your own biases. An IEP need not be a life sentence, and in an inclusion environment may not involve much if any pullout from general education, but can ensure accommodations and services as needed.

Just a comment. I am chair of a CSE/CPSE and we DO NOT tell parents that low scores are fine just so they won't ask for services. That is an inaccurate and unethical thing to even suggest. What's more important to look at is the confidence interval..these is the range of scores that is automatically built into each composite score...if a child's confidence interval suggests the probability that on any given day the child could score as high as say, 98, then that is an average score....don't concern yourself as much with the actual score...therefore, average indicates no problem. We want children to be successful....that's why we do what we do. It's not to balance a bottom line, which is an unfortunate myth....

Definitely try to get the preschool to either participate in person or by phone, or at least have them fill out any necessary teacher referral forms or document by letter what they are seeing in the classroom.

"Adverse impact" is an important part of the IEP determination process. You can have a diagnosis and an assessment that says that the child is at a low academic level, but without any classroom impact, a school conceivably say there's no evidence of "adverse impact" and dismiss. This happened to me. It's a douche-y move on the school's part, and you can always re-file, but it just eats up time.

OP here:

This is what the evaluation overview says: on the WPPSI-IV she had a Verbal Comprehension Index of 102 (mean of 100, SD of 5), a Visual Spatial Index of 91, a Fluid Reasoning Index of 109, a Working Memory of 90, a Processing Speed Index of 106, and a FSIQ of 101. She is having more difficulty than expected picking up her early academic skills, indicating emerging learning disabilities.

Her scales scores on the WPPSI-IV subtests: (mean of 10, SD of 3)
Verbal Comprehension
Information: 11
Similarities: 10
Comprehension: 10

Working Memory:
Picture Memory: 11
Zoo Locations: 6

Visual-Spatial:
Block Design: 6
Object Assembly: 11

Fluid Reasoning:
Matrix Reasoning: 12
Picture Concepts: 11

Processing Speed:
Bug Search: 11
Cancellation: 11

Her NEPSY-II Word Generation Semantic Fluency scaled score was 7 with the standard score equivalent of 85; her NEPSY-II Sentence Repetition was a standard score equivalent of 100 (scaled score of 10) and NEPSY-II Narrative Memory (standard score equivalent of 115, scaled score of 13)

On the Beery-VMI (visual motor integration) she got a standard score of 92

The Woodcock-Johnson-III Letter-Word Identification and Spelling she received a Standard Score of 83 on each

On the School Readiness Composite of the Bracken Basic Concept Scale, Expressive, she received a standard score of 76 (this is the 3 year, 3 month level that I referred to above).

I guess I could keep going but the whole thing depresses me and I've already given out most of the scores. I was shocked that she received an average score on some things related to the Educational Assessment piece (Brigance Inventory of Early Development II). For example, she was supposed to identify survival sight words. She only got Stop and Go right because she recognized the stop sign and then said the opposite of stop for the other sign. Every other sign on the darn page she would randomly say was stop and go because she got the first ones right. She labeled one out of 7 lowercase letters, identified 2 more when they were labeled for her, and gave the letter sound for one letter. For that she was seemed a quotient of 92 with an age equivalent of 4 years 10 months (she is 5 years, 2 months now). With results like these in real school, she will receive an F or whatever the new grade is for F.

Child Find has the KKI report and I have requested the preschool to attend the meeting with me. Based on what a PP said, I think this is the IEP Evaluation meeting where they present their findings. I love the idea of the Extended School Year. I would hate to fight to get services for 2 months and then have her forget everything by August.

Dare I hope?

Anonymous wrote:we got one in DCPS, and were told that an IEP is granted when the child has issues that impact child's ability to learn. it is not clear from your letter what the problem is and if your child has a problem (you talk about pre-academics on a child who just started pre-k). in our case, teh neuro-psych evaluation , done in the summer between K and 1st grade, showed that our child has ADHD. the school did its own evaluation and also it considered a lot the fact that the child teacher confirmed that child was having problems and her ability to learn was affected. IEP has been really useful for her.

+1

We had no problems getting an IEP for our son in preK even though he was above grade level in all academic areas. The school is more concerned whether the child has issues that can impact their ability to learn which includes socialization and how they function at school and not just academics. Our son has ASD/Asperger's and his IEP addresses social and behavioral issues since he does not have academic issues. We are also in DC but at a charter.

Look carefully at the different kinds of tests done by Child Find and KKI. Are all tests "average or above average" -- then you might have some difficulty with an IEP. Although, you should know that the law says that a child does not have to be failing or falling behind to receive an IEP. But, since you said that KKI report said that she is at the 3 year old level in pre-academics (whatever that means), that is clear evidence that an IEP is needed.

BTW, "Average" does not mean what you think it means. "Average" can span a very wide range statistically, a range that includes 70% of the population. When I went through our child's IEP process, I found that the school team constantly referred to certain poor scores as "average". If you look at the bell curve, a student can be labeled "low average" when 85% of the student population is scoring above that student. That's quite different than our common understanding of "average" which we take to mean about the middle of the pack. In our IEP meeting, my child's "average" (low average) scores were de facto evidence of a learning disability when compared to his top 1/10 of a percentile IQ. So, be careful when you hear the word "average". Referring to "low average" scores as "fine" is a common tactic of IEP teams to try to convince the parent that there is nothing wrong.

Also, bear in mind that skills develop rapidly at this age. Sometimes schools use this to try to convince you that your child will magically develop the skills by the end of the developmental time window (3-7) for basic academics without any intervention. But, the flip side is true as well -- other kids are developing quickly and your child can fall behind by comparison. This happened to us. Our child's testing clearly showed a language disorder, and he should have received an IEP even though he was not "behind" academically yet. But, the school refused. As the K-2 years went by and the academic demands increased, he did not acquire reading and writing skills as his peers did and he fell further and further behind until he was finally given an IEP in 3rd grade. I share that not because you should feel that that is inevitably your fate, but to remind you that even if you don't succeed in getting an IEP, you can always ask again. In fact, the second time he was denied an IEP, I immediately filed again (only days later) and finally he received an IEP the 3rd time.

Please go to the Wrightslaw website and look up about testing to understand what it means. You can also google each test that is given to get a clear understanding of what it tests and what it does NOT test.

Bring in the KKI reports and have the preschool teachers write letters to the team to document their concerns and what they witness in the classroom. If possible, see if someone from preschool can attend the meeting with you.

If in Montgomery County, the first meeting is just a screening meeting. The agenda to decide if there is a possibility that there is a disability that has an academic impact. From the data you have, you should get pass that phase. They will then take your documentation, give it to their school psychologists to review, perform additional testing (if team recommends, maybe do an observance of your child at preschool (if permission by you and the school is granted), then reconvene to discuss the data.

The 2nd meeting is the IEP Evaluation Meeting is when the data is presented. The KKI documents should pinpoint the disability/disabilities. Then the discussion would turn to does the disability/disabilities have an academic impact? Does it interfere with the child's learning?

If yes, then an IEP Meeting is scheduled to write the IEP. In that meeting, the team discusses what special education services your child needs to teach important academic skills? Which accommodations are appropriate for your child?

It is a long drawn out process that may take several months (4-6) to get through. Given that the process is just beginning, if you get to the IEP writing phase, preschool to Kindergarten transitioning skills should be the immediate focus. Also, if services don't begin till Spring, be sure to ask for ESY (Extended School Year Services) so your child doesn't loose progress made by ending services for the Summer (June-August).

we got one in DCPS, and were told that an IEP is granted when the child has issues that impact child's ability to learn. it is not clear from your letter what the problem is and if your child has a problem (you talk about pre-academics on a child who just started pre-k). in our case, teh neuro-psych evaluation , done in the summer between K and 1st grade, showed that our child has ADHD. the school did its own evaluation and also it considered a lot the fact that the child teacher confirmed that child was having problems and her ability to learn was affected. IEP has been really useful for her.

Yes, they can give an IEP based on outside reports! Make sure you submit the testing or at least tell them prior to the meeting so they know what you are bringing.

We did have it done. I don't have it here at the house but can post the results (which I don't understand) later. I was mostly concerned about the preacademics since we are about to start school.

Did you have the neuropsych done? That can give you a lot more info than just the academic testing. If she does not qualify, she might surprise you in kindergarten, and if not you can have brought up again. Gl!

I am very nervous that my upcoming IEP meeting will result in no IEP for my 5-year old DD (in pre-k currently due to her birthday missing the cutoff). We had her tested by MCPS Child Find last December on the recommendation of her preschool where her results showed that she was "average and advanced in some areas". We followed this up with a general eval at KKI which recommended a neuropsych eval. We had the neuropsych eval done at KKI over the summer which showed her preacademics to be in the 3-year old level. I just received the report from Child Find's evaluation of her and it showed her as average in all areas tested. I am so worried that she will not get an IEP and be ready for kindergarten. She already talks to me about how her brain doesn't work and sometimes she doesn't remember things - things I have NEVER said to her or in front of her. Her pre-k teacher also says that she has short-term memory issues. Is it possible that MCPS will give her an IEP based on the KKI report and not on their evaluation of her?