I hate to be cynical but I wonder if Starr is trying to tank this. It sounds odd that he isn't recommending a study to find a feasible way to address high school start times but is prescribing a very specific constrained solution. The alignment of high school and middle school along with an increased day for elementary schools appears to be far more $$ impacting than other options. It looks like he is setting this up to guarantee a study that comes back asking to double the bus fleet and renegotiate work hours/salary with the teacher unions.

This sounds like a dishonest political play. Parents love the recommendation and he knows he's constructed it in a way where it will never be implemented.

I am NOT on board with a longer day for elementary school kids. Their day is long enough as it is and my kids are exhausted. I can see this being beneficial for high schoolers and likely middle schoolers. But I think its crazy to add that time on to elementary schools UNLESS is for recess and active playtime.

I support the later start time for high school.

I agree with using the extra half hour for additional recess/active playtime for younger elementary (and perhaps nap/rest time for Kindergartners).

What I can foresee being difficult is the longer school day for the older elementary child who has significant homework and afterschool activities.

I do not support a longer day for elementary school. Frankly, I have found the elementary curriculum to be very weak -- even more so with C2.0. I can't support having my child be in school for an even longer day, especially at that young age when play dates and after school activities and other "down" time is so important. More time with a weak curriculum and weak teachers is really not going to be helpful. For those students that enter or fall behind in elementary, rigorous research-based intervention during the school day would be most helpful. 2nd most helpful would be rigorous research-based intervention/catch-up plans after the school day or in Saturday school. Instead, right now, those students who are behind are simply given more of the same, on the theory that teaching the same way a second time will be successful.

I agree with you about the curriculum and Starr should be run out of town for what he has done to MCPS.

However, MCPS doesn't have to screw everything up. They could do this right and use the extra 30 minutes to give kids more recess time. This would support the latest research on the childhood obesity epidemic and recommendation from HHS and AAP. This would never happen in MCPS BUT wouldn't it be great if they could offer extra PE, art, music or even introduce something new like drama or a foreign language for grades 2 and above. K and 1st just need more outdoor time and play time.

The county also needs to take away the principal's discretion to cancel recess. Too many principals don't let kids go outside for recess when its under 40 or 32 degrees. Every single kid goes to play outside once they get home, get into aftercare, or go to outdoor sports. There is no reason for the principals to be canceling recess all winter. The gyms can't accommodate the size of the recess population so the kids end up copped up in their classrooms.

Yay MCPS (are we allowed to say that on this board without getting smeared as shills or worse?)

Not appropriate to move middle school earlier -- this is the beginning of growth changes, and I have noticed that along with growth/puberty changes, my MS student's sleep cycles are already changing to the stay up later/wake up later pattern that goes thru HS.

I do not support a longer day for elementary school. Frankly, I have found the elementary curriculum to be very weak -- even more so with C2.0. I can't support having my child be in school for an even longer day, especially at that young age when play dates and after school activities and other "down" time is so important. More time with a weak curriculum and weak teachers is really not going to be helpful. For those students that enter or fall behind in elementary, rigorous research-based intervention during the school day would be most helpful. 2nd most helpful would be rigorous research-based intervention/catch-up plans after the school day or in Saturday school. Instead, right now, those students who are behind are simply given more of the same, on the theory that teaching the same way a second time will be successful.

I am NOT on board with a longer day for elementary school kids. Their day is long enough as it is and my kids are exhausted. I can see this being beneficial for high schoolers and likely middle schoolers. But I think its crazy to add that time on to elementary schools UNLESS is for recess and active playtime.

That is a hell of a long day for a 5 year old! Perhaps it is since I am from a country that does not have full day school for the first two years.

Oh, I hope these new start times become reality! This would be wonderful! So important for the high schoolers in particular.

This is great news if it comes to pass. the current start times for high school kids are unconscionable.

Its insane that high schools start between 6:35 and 7 am. In this area, kids can have a 15-25 minute commute to their high school so its even worse. Most school districts are making this change.

Anonymous wrote:The study is probably a logistical funding study. The research is already available on adolescent sleep cycles, sleep deprivation and correlation with depression/poor academic performance. Virginia and other school systems are already way ahead on this issue so MCPS is just catching up.


If extended the elementary school day by 30 minutes is required to include an extra recess (active play not sit in the classroom) for elementary school kids then it would be even better.

Agreed. I have 1 each in ES, MS and HS. And I can work with these timings. The HS kid is the most in need of a later school start time.

The study is probably a logistical funding study. The research is already available on adolescent sleep cycles, sleep deprivation and correlation with depression/poor academic performance. Virginia and other school systems are already way ahead on this issue so MCPS is just catching up.


If extended the elementary school day by 30 minutes is required to include an extra recess (active play not sit in the classroom) for elementary school kids then it would be even better.

My understanding is the huge obstacle to changing start times is busing. Right now the same buses take everyone and have to have enough time to do one group's route first (say elementary school) before turning around to pick up the next (middle school) and so on. If you have them start too close to one another, you'd have to buy a lot more buses and hire many more drivers.

What does this even mean? Implement the changes then study the impact? If so, yes, that would be prudent to measure the impact - pos or neg - of such changes. However, if he's still punting on making a decision, how much more evidence does he need. Physicians have weighed in on this and there is mounting evidence about adolescent brains and why this makes sense. I know not all agree, but the science supports this, so why keep delaying. If these result in unforeseen negative impacts, then change it back.

Dr. Starr is recommending the following changes be studied:

- Move high school start times 50 minutes later, from 7:25 a.m. to 8:15 a.m. (school ending at 3 p.m.)
- Move middle school start times 10 minutes earlier, from 7:55 a.m. to 7:45 a.m. (school ending at 2:30 p.m.)
- Keep elementary school start times as they currently are (8:50 a.m. and 9:15 a.m.), but extend the school day by 30 minutes (school ending at 3:35 p.m. and 4 p.m.)

Would not be implemented until 2015-2016 school year.

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?page=showrelease&id=3407