Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 13:10     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?
Anonymous wrote:I was surprised that DS came home saying some questions were answered via written response. Is this how assessment normally happens in 1st grade?


Once he gets to the higher levels of reading comprehension, they require written response to assess. It likely means that your child is advanced in some shape or form.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 12:01     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?
Anonymous wrote:



However, the PP's point that measuring reading via writing skills may not truly reflect the child's reading (including reading comprehension skills) is valid. In my son's case, he has a disability that affects small motor skills including the ability to hold a pencil and write. Therefore, his disability impacts is writing skills and what he puts on the paper. If you have him verbally explain the answer, he can go into depth about what he reads much more so than what he can put on paper in the allotted time. Therefore, his reading group does not match up to his reading skill level. We are seeing the same impact in math because of the added demand to write in that subject.


That is true but the purpose of testing is to place them in groups. Basically it doesn't matter how well you can read if you can't write. But it's still good to be able to read at a higher level. Then the work in class can focus on writing so that that the student can improve that skill.


You are quite uninformed.

My son has dysgraphia and reads at a level significantly higher than his writing level. In 1st grade, a child is not "required" to pass the written portion of the MClass to be advanced to the next level of reading. In 2nd grade, they must pass the written BCR to advance. I know this because in 1st grade, my child's dysgraphia was obvious, but the school refused to help him because although he was failing the MClass BCRs, he wasn't "officially" failing because no child was yet required to pass any writing objectives. In 2nd grade, all of the sudden the school acknowledged he was "behind grade level" (far behind grade level), because now he was required to pass these BCRS on the MClass in order to advance to the next level. What a difference it could have made if the school could have helped him at the beginning of his problem, instead of waiting.

While it is true that reading and writing abilities are not always at exactly the same level, penalizing kids with disabilities, like my son and the PP's son, by placing them in the class/group which matches their lowest level of ability, as you suggest, is discriminatory and a denial of a free and appropriate education. After going thru the IEP process, the school became obliged to place my son in an appropriate reading group (and math group) and give him appropriate support for his (terrible) writing. His dysgraphia was clearly preventing him from accessing class, because he could not demonstrate his understanding in a written manner. Once given a scribe and/or access to a computer, he was able to demonstrate understanding. Reading is a separate skill from writing. Math is a separate skill from being able to write about math. Not being able to answer a math BCR in writing is not the same as not understanding math. Not being able to write a reading comp BCR in the required format is not the same as not understanding the book.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 11:45     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?



However, the PP's point that measuring reading via writing skills may not truly reflect the child's reading (including reading comprehension skills) is valid. In my son's case, he has a disability that affects small motor skills including the ability to hold a pencil and write. Therefore, his disability impacts is writing skills and what he puts on the paper. If you have him verbally explain the answer, he can go into depth about what he reads much more so than what he can put on paper in the allotted time. Therefore, his reading group does not match up to his reading skill level. We are seeing the same impact in math because of the added demand to write in that subject.


That is true but the purpose of testing is to place them in groups. Basically it doesn't matter how well you can read if you can't write. But it's still good to be able to read at a higher level. Then the work in class can focus on writing so that that the student can improve that skill.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 11:30     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is a requirement on the mClass assessments (standardized benchmark assessments given 3 times per year to students in grades K-2) to demonstrate comprehension in writing above a reading level 16. It is not an idiotic standard--do you really think someone has comprehended what they've read if they cannot answer a question in writing about what they've read, citing evidence from the text?


NP here. I have a child who was a very early reader, which I know around here is not unusual. Her reading skills FAR outweigh her writing skills. She's 5 and speeding through chapter books because she just loves to read. I can ask her questions about the book that she answers completely accurately, she gets humor where it is appropriate, she has an incredible memory for facts within the many books she's read long after she has read them. Her writing skills are above average, but not near it would "need" to be be for her to correctly spell out an answer to a question about the book.

Reading and writing are two different skills, why would they have to be tied together?


Because when they are measuring above level 16 (into the letters) they need to group the students based on reading as well as writing. In the reading/writing groups, the students read books that are a bit easier than what they are capable of reading because they also need to write about them. Reading for pleasure is different than being able to read well for school. Reading well for school requires being able to write about what you read. They aren't really separate.


However, the PP's point that measuring reading via writing skills may not truly reflect the child's reading (including reading comprehension skills) is valid. In my son's case, he has a disability that affects small motor skills including the ability to hold a pencil and write. Therefore, his disability impacts is writing skills and what he puts on the paper. If you have him verbally explain the answer, he can go into depth about what he reads much more so than what he can put on paper in the allotted time. Therefore, his reading group does not match up to his reading skill level. We are seeing the same impact in math because of the added demand to write in that subject.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 11:29     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?
Anonymous wrote:Is your son above grade level in reading?

In 1st grade, my son was reading above grade level (he was fascinated by the first 2 Harry Potter books at the time). To evaluate him, the teacher applied a standard where he read more complex texts and had to write down full sentences to prove reading comprehension. Since he could not write well, he "failed" to meet the above-grade READING level!

Idiotic standard.



DS was reading above grade level all last year but not off the charts. Reading has definitely progressed over the summer but I don't have clear idea where on the scale he would be.

I know written questions were given because DS told me the exact question and the exact written response and where it was conducted. Verbal responses were also measured.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 11:09     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It is a requirement on the mClass assessments (standardized benchmark assessments given 3 times per year to students in grades K-2) to demonstrate comprehension in writing above a reading level 16. It is not an idiotic standard--do you really think someone has comprehended what they've read if they cannot answer a question in writing about what they've read, citing evidence from the text?


NP here. I have a child who was a very early reader, which I know around here is not unusual. Her reading skills FAR outweigh her writing skills. She's 5 and speeding through chapter books because she just loves to read. I can ask her questions about the book that she answers completely accurately, she gets humor where it is appropriate, she has an incredible memory for facts within the many books she's read long after she has read them. Her writing skills are above average, but not near it would "need" to be be for her to correctly spell out an answer to a question about the book.

Reading and writing are two different skills, why would they have to be tied together?


Because when they are measuring above level 16 (into the letters) they need to group the students based on reading as well as writing. In the reading/writing groups, the students read books that are a bit easier than what they are capable of reading because they also need to write about them. Reading for pleasure is different than being able to read well for school. Reading well for school requires being able to write about what you read. They aren't really separate.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 10:59     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?
Starting in first grade in mcps "reading" really means reading writing and spelling (beyond a certain level -- for very early levels its stil about just reading). Like others I had/have a great reader with less advanced writing and spelling. He was moved back in first grade because of it.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 10:40     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?
Anonymous wrote:It is a requirement on the mClass assessments (standardized benchmark assessments given 3 times per year to students in grades K-2) to demonstrate comprehension in writing above a reading level 16. It is not an idiotic standard--do you really think someone has comprehended what they've read if they cannot answer a question in writing about what they've read, citing evidence from the text?


NP here. I have a child who was a very early reader, which I know around here is not unusual. Her reading skills FAR outweigh her writing skills. She's 5 and speeding through chapter books because she just loves to read. I can ask her questions about the book that she answers completely accurately, she gets humor where it is appropriate, she has an incredible memory for facts within the many books she's read long after she has read them. Her writing skills are above average, but not near it would "need" to be be for her to correctly spell out an answer to a question about the book.

Reading and writing are two different skills, why would they have to be tied together?
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 10:12     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?
Anonymous wrote:It is a requirement on the mClass assessments (standardized benchmark assessments given 3 times per year to students in grades K-2) to demonstrate comprehension in writing above a reading level 16. It is not an idiotic standard--do you really think someone has comprehended what they've read if they cannot answer a question in writing about what they've read, citing evidence from the text?



In my son's case, it was completely idiotic and futile in first grade, because his reading capabilities were significantly higher than his writing capabilities - which often happens for young children starting school. So what was actually measured was his written expression, not his reading comprehension.
My son is in third grade this year, and blending reading and writing assessments is now much more appropriate, because written expression is starting to align with reading comprehension. He can do 5-6th grade level reading comprehension worksheets.

Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 09:46     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?
It is a requirement on the mClass assessments (standardized benchmark assessments given 3 times per year to students in grades K-2) to demonstrate comprehension in writing above a reading level 16. It is not an idiotic standard--do you really think someone has comprehended what they've read if they cannot answer a question in writing about what they've read, citing evidence from the text?
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 09:28     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?
Anonymous wrote:The teacher conducted a reading assessment and then gave DS a paper with questions about what was read. I didn't think this happened in first grade.


Is that what DS told you? I don't know about your DS, but my children have often told me about things that happened in school that turned out not to have happened quite that way.

In any case, if you have concerns, the best first person to talk to is the teacher.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 09:27     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?
Is your son above grade level in reading?

In 1st grade, my son was reading above grade level (he was fascinated by the first 2 Harry Potter books at the time). To evaluate him, the teacher applied a standard where he read more complex texts and had to write down full sentences to prove reading comprehension. Since he could not write well, he "failed" to meet the above-grade READING level!

Idiotic standard.

Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 08:58     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?
The teacher conducted a reading assessment and then gave DS a paper with questions about what was read. I didn't think this happened in first grade.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 07:57     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?
DS says that some questions for what were answered via written response by whom?

I think that, if you have questions about this, the best thing to do first is to ask the teacher.
Anonymous
Post 09/13/2013 07:52     Subject: MCPS - written response for reading assessment?
I was surprised that DS came home saying some questions were answered via written response. Is this how assessment normally happens in 1st grade?