Anonymous wrote:OP: It is very hard to get out of the box of expectations that you are in. They will never promote you because they cannot replace you. No one else would do 2 jobs for one salary. Time to have the umm humm, yeah you are so great! lunch and then move on. No employer gives a bad review to an employee who is leaving -- too much chance of a lawsuit. The 18th century is over now.

I found that at my previous job -- I would always say yes to weekend work, took the crap shifts, etc., then discovered there was no promotion, not even a raise. After I had a kid and my wife asked I stop working so much and change my shift, I found things didn't really change and people were still expecting the old me to be there.

So -- after 10 years with that company, I left.

Just be non-committal at the lunch. Certainly don't let it be known you're looking outside the company.

Exception: If you think this boss has the pull to reduce your workload, then ask her for help in reducing the workload. You may find you don't mind staying if that's the case.

But, as 22:27 says, she probably has no real help to offer. Just deal with it, and keep on working and looking for a new job.

Anonymous wrote:There's only one promotion? What kind of job is that?

sounds like a law firm or something like it--up (to partner) or out...

Anonymous wrote:You needed to start working on your exit plan. Sounds like this manager could be a great reference for you - I would just keep the conversation on a totally professional level and dodge any questions about your satisfaction. She is not your therapist - you don't owe her any answers about your emotional state. Don't be fooled by appearNce of sympathy. As you have gathered, they are just trying to assess how much longer they can squeeze you for.

+1

Anonymous wrote:She's fishing ~ for information. I'd be very careful. People with genuine concern wouldn't wait -wouldn't be scheduling a lunch for sometime in the future. You're right to avoid or somehow try to control the duration, and what is discussed. Do no let your guard down.

I think this is good advice.

DO NOT tell her you job searching. Go in with a plan as to what you do want out of your current role or what would make you happier - less work and flexibility seems like the only things in the cards if they aren't promoting - if you do not get those then she will not be surprised when you find a new job.

She's fishing ~ for information. I'd be very careful. People with genuine concern wouldn't wait -wouldn't be scheduling a lunch for sometime in the future. You're right to avoid or somehow try to control the duration, and what is discussed. Do no let your guard down.

Don't tell her about your job search!!! If she is a partner she will feel obliged to tell the other partners. Then you will be screwed.

You need to start pushing back to carve out more time for yourself and job search. Get used to saying "no." I they assign it to you anyway give it back to them.

You needed to start working on your exit plan. Sounds like this manager could be a great reference for you - I would just keep the conversation on a totally professional level and dodge any questions about your satisfaction. She is not your therapist - you don't owe her any answers about your emotional state. Don't be fooled by appearNce of sympathy. As you have gathered, they are just trying to assess how much longer they can squeeze you for.

OP: It is very hard to get out of the box of expectations that you are in. They will never promote you because they cannot replace you. No one else would do 2 jobs for one salary. Time to have the umm humm, yeah you are so great! lunch and then move on. No employer gives a bad review to an employee who is leaving -- too much chance of a lawsuit. The 18th century is over now.

There's only one promotion? What kind of job is that?

Op here -- problem is there is nothing to negotiate in terms of promotions, raises or other comp like vacation. There is one promotion -- either you make it or you don't. She has always said (and I think truly believes) that I am promotion worthy; problem is the rest of management is just looking at the bottom line and has flat out said they won't promote me or anyone in my current peer class - so it isn't just about me/my work, which I'm told is excellent, but about the bottom line. Given that they aren't promoting, I don't see them offering up raises. As much as she says/acts like she's all about me, she can't do anything about this -- she is one of the junior most in management and I really don't think they listen to her much (if she even speaks up - I think she thinks she does).

I frankly just need less work. All sorts of people push back all the time -- that's just the tone they set from the moment they got to the company and it's been fine for them; when I push back, no one accepts it bc they are used to the fact that over the last 10 yrs I haven't said no. Well in the last 10 yrs, I was chasing a promotion and now I'm not -- they don't seem to get it/want to get it. I also wouldn't mind using her for contacts/ideas and I'm not sure how much she can offer up there; I know when she was up for this promotion, her back up plan was that if she didn't get it, she was leaving DC and relocating to Florida (hometown) and taking a yr off to figure out her next steps there.

Problem is -- if she thinks my work is excellent and wants to be a reference, do I really want to be telling her "well I need you to help me job search while I'm at this job?" Won't it undo the 10 yrs of devotion to come out with such an attitude or will they respect that I'm (finally) looking out for myself.

Are there no flex time, comp time, or flex place possibilities? Or all those concepts just dreams from the 90s?

It sounds at the very least like you need more vacation time, which would have been a form of additional compensation from the feds and many companies given the extent of time you've had at your company.

If she doesn't want to lose you, you need to renegotiate a raise, more time off, more regular hours, different duties or a different job assignment -- lateral or vertical. Maybe you need an assistant or at least an unpaid intern (who will work for experience and college credit) to help you out.

What you really need to is to check out one of the dozens of business/employment websites all over the internet, such as monster.com or the Post's column by Karla Miller before meeting with the boss to get a few pointers on the basics of negotiation.

Totally sympathize. A few ideas:

- Do you want to be promoted at this company? If so, ask her what you need to do to be seen as promotion material. Have her help you put together a concrete plan for getting promoted at the next review cycle.

- Do you want a raise to compensate for your extra effort? This is not the same as a promotion. Ask her what kind of raise is possible and how to pursue it. Ditto on the concrete plan, including timeline for asking.

- Do you want to just work less (i.e., a normal amount given your compensation)? If so, ask her what you can do to firmly reject more assignments ... or what you can do to protect yourself when you fail to do assignments you've rejected but been assigned anyway. She may have seen others refuse or postpone work with minimal consequences, and be able to reassure you on that front.

If she has no real help to offer -- which sounds likely, given that your company has financial/management problems -- then that opens the door to asking how you can build skills and contacts that will take you to a new position as quickly as possible. She probably knows people, can be a reference, etc. If she can't offer answers to your legitimate questions above *and* can't help a subordinate grow professionally even if that means leaving the organization, then she's not as good a boss as you thought and you shouldn't stay (or work more) for her sake.

Good luck!

One of my (indirect) bosses -- who drives people hard and has always had high expectations -- wants to have lunch this week to talk about how things are going. I know this is the ‘I feel you’re burning out, what can I do' convo because she has expressed concerns to higher ups that I’ll just walk out the door one day and she doesn’t want to lose me (she doesn’t work with me directly as much as she used to; I loved working with her and was happy to work with her night and day because I was learning and my efforts were appreciated -- with other management, not so much).

Truth is, burn out is where I am at. I have worked night and day for almost a decade for them and they (not her - but people who are senior to her) have pretty much told me they see me as a worker bee and don’t think I’m promotion worthy. It’s BS and I’m over it -- frankly they aren’t promoting because they’re having monetary problems and management problems at the top, so I want out -- almost to the point of just leaving before I even figure something out. I don’t want to walk out the door that way, but unlike others they don’t let me slack enough to find a job while working -- as long as I’m around it “oh, can you handle one more thing, it won’t take long.” If I try to pushback, they ignore me and it’s assigned to me anyway -- it’s not conducive to a job search.

What do I say? I don’t want to tell her much bc frankly all she can do is agree and say she’s sorry but she can’t change the other managers. I don’t want to leave bc of her but bc of people who are more powerful than her. I appreciate that she cares and I look up to her as a professional, but I don’t want the convo to be too “friendly” -- not sure how I can avoid that if we’re out to lunch though. Thoughts?