Lots of them at DOJ, but you still work your ass off.

Anonymous wrote:I reached it 9 months after joining the agency as a GS-13. After 3 months at the agency, I was put on detail in a position directly reporting to agency leadership. After about 6 months in the job, the position was made permanent and I got bumped to GS-15. I was 6 years out of law school.

The agency isn't hiring for that position right now, and you need a particular substantive background.

This doesn't make sense. You got the position only 6 years out of law school and only 9 months after joining the agency, yet you're telling the OP that you need a substantive background? It doesn't sound like you had a substantive background to get yours.

Anonymous wrote:My agency just started having non-sup attorney 15s and they were able to give out as many as they wanted (to as many people as they believed qualified).

23:32 here .. Get 'em while you can because this is unlikely to last in the coming budget environment. Between OPM pushing for more careful classification and agencies' budget pressures, every indication I have is that this may be a short-lived thing at your agency.

The number of non-superv. 15s at my former agency will definitely go down. As GS15 non-superv. attorneys retire those positions will not be filled 1-for-1 at all (i.e., 1 attorney (of whatever grade) for 1 attorney) and will likely not be filled by 15s.

My agency just started having non-sup attorney 15s and they were able to give out as many as they wanted (to as many people as they believed qualified).

The PP mentioning phasing out non supervisory attorney slots is not far off.... the OPM classification standards have been applied sloppily for years and it's resulted in "grade creep" and an increasing number of non-supervisory 15s.

At various agencies there are moves afoot to more carefully apply the classification standards in the future since there are likely to be dwindling budgets and fewer positions probably (FTE reductions through attrition or RIFs). I was on a management study group at my agency that addressed this.

Many current non-sup. 15s will become essentially "incumbent only" and when the incumbent leaves there will be a staffing plan study to determine whether some of those duties will be parceled out to others and whether what remains will justify a GS15 to fill the position.

One common mistake/misimpression is that classification is based on the duties, not the skills or resume of the person doing the job. If 25% of the duties as performed or expected to be performed, don't meet the standards then a GS15 classification (which is based on level of complexity of work and nature/level of contacts (e.g., staff to staff is not a 15; dealing with higher level managers is needed) may be in jeopardy.

In short, expect fewer non-sup. GS15 attorney positions to be filled in the next 10-15 years based on everything I have seen.

Anonymous wrote:They are phasing them out at our agency (claiming that other agencies don't have them).

Got to love the government.

I mean, there aren't THAT many, but my attorney group is 10 people. 4 are non-supervisory 15s, 1 is the supervisor, 4 are 14s and one is a 12.

They are phasing them out at our agency (claiming that other agencies don't have them).

Took 8 years at my agency, but I started as a GS 9 straight out of law school. We're in a hiring freeze, so no openings at the moment.

OP, for whatever it's worth, I just got a non-supervisory 15 (attorney) position at a new agency after 5 years at my original agency, where I started as an 11 out of law school. I rose up to a 14, step 3, but I wasn't going to wait two years for another (step) increase, and the General Counsel passed me over for an internal 15 opening. So I basically told them that this wasn't going to happen again, and that I'd take the first 15 offered to me, whether it was there or somewhere else. And it happened to be somewhere else, off a regular USAJobs posting. It probably helped to have some broad, generally-applicable skills (i.e., not excessively focused on over-specialized "mission-related" legal niches where you have no option to go anywhere else), litigation experience, a publication record in my field(s), and good performance reviews. And of course it takes a little luck. I know a lot of people waited/wait a lot longer than 30 to reach grade 15, but I was determined to look out for myself and not be one of them. If you have to go somewhere else to get what you want, then do it. For whatever it's worth, I'm much happier at my new agency anyway, not to mention better paid.

I don't know of any non-supervisory 15 positions in my agency (it doesn't mean they don't exist- just that I don't know of them). People routinely turn down 15 positions because the money isn't that much more from the 14s and there is so much more BS type of work involved. Also, 15s aren't allowed to telework, 14s are. Assuming I stay at my agency, I will try to keep my 14 vs. go for a promotion.

I have one. I became a supervisory 15 after 6 years, (starting right out of law school as an 11). After about 5 years as a supervisor I stepped out of the supervisory position, but was allowed to keep 15.

My agency does post non-supervisory 15's-- they are virtually always internal only postings. It varies considerably how long it takes people to get them.

Non-supervisory attorneys at GAO can make the equivalent of GS-15 (GAO is not on the GS system).

Are you an attorney? There are a lot of positions in dc at tat level for attorneys. Are you another kind of professional with specific skills/education? It I hard to answer without knowing what you might be qualified for.

I reached it 9 months after joining the agency as a GS-13. After 3 months at the agency, I was put on detail in a position directly reporting to agency leadership. After about 6 months in the job, the position was made permanent and I got bumped to GS-15. I was 6 years out of law school.

The agency isn't hiring for that position right now, and you need a particular substantive background.

I'd like to reach what I consider the holy grail at some point--a non supervisory GS 15 attorney position. Does anyone out there care to share if these positions are available in your agency? If you are currently a non supervisory 15 attorney, how many years did it take you to reach that level? Do you enjoy your work? Thanks so much!