Sorry wrong thread!

It's overkill. Not to mention that the lovely foundation behind Lee would likely correct the issue promptly if they knew about it.

"I guess part of me is hoping that he will realize the truth when his mother dies (she's very old). I know this sounds outrageous. "

Hope is not a plan. You are smarter than this.

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't sound like gas lighting. It sounds like your husband is being a straight up, unapologetic jerk. You need to get clear on the issues in your relationship and get some help from professionals. Or leave the marriage.

Don't make this about his family's unrefined palettes or anything else about your vacation. These are not your problems. Your problem is the way your husband treats you. Focus on that.

Agree. I would not tolerate this behavior for a nanosecond. You haven't indicated anything positive about your DH to offset the very high asshole factor.

Minor point, but it's palate. An unrefined palette would indicate a preference for neon, or avocado green appliances.

Thanks so much for the *constructive* posts! I truly appreciate your insights more than you know. Its been years, and I am all out of ideas.

He has tried counseling, but is quite charming, so is not successful in counseling. He can easily convince others of a stream of stories - many against me! If I didn't see it for myself, I would think I was paranoid But believe me, its bad.

I have sought help myself, and they eventually tell me to leave him. Maybe when the kids are older, I'm just not there yet. I fully realize that one of DCUMs *favorite* responses is "get divorced!" so it was hard for me to ask for help here. I try to own my stuff so I can move forward. DH refuses to own his stuff.

Honestly, I really feel like I need some tools to deal with him so I don't end up like his bitter, hostile mother. She is a wolf in sheeps clothing.

For the most part, I avoid couple gatherings with him and seeing his family with him.

He was emotionally abused by his family, so his acting out is sneaky and tiresome. Like his family was to him (he felt he had no escape until much older). It is always projected at me. For a long time, I was hoping he would "learn" how to treat me from my example of being supportive and positive, but he just refuses. Its not in his line of sight.

Its most difficult because I have had to figure all of this out myself. I came from a really positive, warm relationship (a couple years before I met DH - a few years long). I naively thought everyone was considerate and well meaning. I seemed to have corned the market with inconsiderate, spiteful, nasty, bitter cads in his family, unfortunately.

I guess part of me is hoping that he will realize the truth when his mother dies (she's very old). I know this sounds outrageous.

There are reasons I am with him, they just become less and less easy to see at certain times of year. I used to look forward to holidays.

Your husband is narcissistic. The giveaway was: "I think he thrives off of unhappy people." and that he criticizes you "As if he wants to highlight how great *he* is". The person who always puts someone down to come off as better, and who needs to make everyone jumps through hoops at a moment's notice, is an extremely difficult person to get along with.

The Narcissistic Personality Disorder is an extreme type of this and is completely toxic. Your husband probably has a lighter version, but it would still benefit you if you could see a therapist for yourself - to learn how to cope - and if you could persuade your husband to see one himself - to teach him that feeling good about himself does not need to come at the price of hurting others.

Can your husband really be this huge a selfish jerk just on vacation with specific people around? And then what? He clicks into being his "real" self -- no doubt his more loving, non-gaslighting, non-dictatorial self -- all the rest of the time?

I would bet not. The behaviors might grow more exaggerated around certain people who bring out the worst in him, but isn't it likely that the behaviors are there to at least some degree the rest of the time, or in milder versions?

Yours is a very valid complaint about vacations, but really there is a bigger issue here. If I were in your shoes, I'd sit down and think hard about your husband's behaviors -- and whether they're there in other forms when you're not on vacation with the family. Yes, he likely is behaving this way in order to fit in and to protect himself somehow among these jerky family members -- but I'd call him out on it this time, and if he can't step back and see what he's doing -- maybe it's time for you both to see a counselor. You do not deserve to waste your vacation time, or any of your time, being treated this way.

As for the in-laws, I'd worry first about husband and forget them. Oh yes -- and don't go on this vacation ever again. Let husband go on his own and plan your own thing with the kids. I wouldn't want my kids to witness this kind of crap, from either the in-laws or from their dad, frankly.

I agree that DH is the problem, but I have lived though something similar. My ILs are fine - a little controlling but not terrible. Never rude or insulting, or anything like that. But if you tried to judge our marriage on how my DH treated me with his parents around, you would have considered our relationship a disaster, with my DH being at best inattentive and at worst emotionally abusive.

Here's the thing: my DH can barely tolerate his parents. They have never really understood each other, even though I know they love him as best they can. He would find the strain of spending that much time with them too much to handle, and, like a child who lashes out at his or her parent because they feel safe doing so, my DH took out his unhappiness on me. Fair? Hell, no. Once I understood the dynamic, and once HE understood it, we were able to take steps to eliminate those reactions. The number one thing? Limit the time with his parents. The maximum stay for them is now 4-5 days.

So, my recommendation is discuss this calmly with your DH (I feel you treat me terribly when your parents are around). Even better if you could do some couples therapy to work this out. Also, tell him that, since they dynamic is unhealthy for you and shows utter disrespect for you in front of your children, you are removing yourself from the toxic situation. Either he treats you respectfully, or you don't go. Don't make it punitive - just a dispassionate statement of your position. You can also offer a family vacation with JUST your nuclear family.

Anonymous wrote:Have you thought of treating them like children and having an alternate meal for them if you are cooking something special or interesting? Just make them chicken nuggets, kraft mac and cheese and corn. Tell them you did this for them special. The other stuff I don't know what to tell you. Sound like jerks, and I wouldn't waste a week with them.

I agree with the food. My DH does a bit of the same thing. He is nice most of the time, but I guess he lets off steam? I would not take a week of that. I well remember the last time that happened -- I said, this is it. And did not do it again. We have been much happier together since then.

This doesn't sound like gas lighting. It sounds like your husband is being a straight up, unapologetic jerk. You need to get clear on the issues in your relationship and get some help from professionals. Or leave the marriage.

Don't make this about his family's unrefined palettes or anything else about your vacation. These are not your problems. Your problem is the way your husband treats you. Focus on that.

I agree. Let dh take the kids and you stay home

Why go on vacation with them? If my spouse treated me that way, I'd stop going. He can take the kids and spend that time with his family. You are under no obligation to have a miserable vacation.

Have you thought of treating them like children and having an alternate meal for them if you are cooking something special or interesting? Just make them chicken nuggets, kraft mac and cheese and corn. Tell them you did this for them special. The other stuff I don't know what to tell you. Sound like jerks, and I wouldn't waste a week with them.

latter=former

The beach threads got me thinking - what exactly do I dread so much about my ILs beach week that makes it so very painful? I came up with a few things.

We try to take turns making dinner. Which I agree with completely. But frankly, I would rather go out or order in than hear them complain. Their palette is not that sophisticated, which is fine, but they whine, pick and/or complain like children if its not as bland as can be, or a very narrow, specific way they like it. Frankly, I wouldn't know what to make for them, that would avoid their nasty reactions. In addition, I would not want the young children to see adults acting this way. I could do no right, if I cooked the best or the worst.

They are passive aggressive and treat me like some sort of entertainment. DH plays into this by acting out. Really, he becomes a really nasty person around certain people. I think he thrives off of unhappy people. If someone else is bitching, he'll get right on the bandwagon, in an effort to "fit in". If someone bitches about their wife, automatically its me that is the problem. If his mother is around, he starts fights with me. He never has anything nice to say around certain people. Yet with most people, he can/is perfectly normal. But I swear he prefers the latter, I think he finds this more appealing, somehow. Hard to explain and even harder to understand, but after all these years, it is as predictable as can be. As if he wants to highlight how great *he* is, somehow? "See what I put up with?" Not really, I was just sitting here minding my own business, and you decide to be an asshole.

DH becomes the same old jerk his dad was on vacation. I know this without ever having met his dad. Again, DH seems to get nasty, temperamental, complain and pick fights. He can be kind of a dictator, and dictates arbitrary decisions - "no, we are not going to do that (fun event) today!" "no I am not going to participate in something loving, like a quick walk on the beach) right now" and only gives in if he can somehow make me the bad guy, as if it is some huge sacrifice to be a normal person.

He creates drama, then makes any discussion about it public, consistently putting me in a bad situation.

I am trying to relay this clearly. It is almost like gas lighting. Which is extremely frustrating. I need some methods to get through the week. I need to call him in front of everyone on his behavior.

If you have a gas lighting spouse, how do you deal with it? In the past, I have tried not to attend the beach week, it is easier that way. But now that the children are older, they are asking well ahead of time and wanting me to join them. UGH.