Anonymous wrote:The unemployment rate for recent graduates with English literature and language degrees was 9.8 percent, according to the Georgetown data, and median earnings were $31,000

For a job after graduation, major in these, not those

http://www.today.com/money/job-after-graduation-major-these-not-those-6C10112004#job-after-graduation-major-these-not-those-6C10112004

Why is it than whenever these threads come up, someone has to chime into a thoughtful discussion with this kind of crap? Average doesn't mean anything. If you are an "average" anything major you're probably not heading straight to the top. If you are smart and driven, you can succeed regardless of major. But hey, it's easier to think in black and white and top 10 lists, right? Just let junk journalism do your thinking for you.

The unemployment rate for recent graduates with English literature and language degrees was 9.8 percent, according to the Georgetown data, and median earnings were $31,000

For a job after graduation, major in these, not those

http://www.today.com/money/job-after-graduation-major-these-not-those-6C10112004#job-after-graduation-major-these-not-those-6C10112004

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old are you?

36. So not that old. Since I started at my college in 1995 tuition has more than tripled. Guess what else has expanded exponentially? Cushy dorms and other non-academic facilities. It's all bullshit. Unless my kid gets HUGE scholarships, he will not be going to one of these schools where we are paying a premium for a fancy dorm, luxury workout rooms, deluxe "student centers" and all of the other crap that has NOTHING to do with learning. I still managed to exercise (walking and biking) without a luxury recreation center, entertain myself ($2 movie theater, drive ins, bars in the next town, parties, etc) and stay cool on hot days (go to the library, visit a shopping center, box fan in the window) without all of that crap. But hey - colleges and universities are giving the people what they say they want. People bitch out of one side of their mouths about it but the reality is they are not willing to pay more to retain top faculty and costly learning facilities (labs, etc) without feeling like they are "getting their money's worth," which inevitably translates into a campus that feels like a 4-star resort. Trust me - in my role at universities, I've had these asinine conversations with current and prospective parents and students more times than I care to recall.

+1
This is absolutley correct. College dorm rooms/ Greek houses do not need to equal spas, and college "facilities" are not supposed to be resorts, except in the minds of many of today's entitled kids. But then, look at how people make such a big deal about the facilities at pre-schools in NW DC. like Beauvoir, for example. Is it any wonder that these kids grow up expecting to live in lux?

^^Plus, I would love to know how market changes necessitate palatial dorms and cushy recreation facilities on university campuses? I doubt you read anything that I wrote anyway but I'm dying to read your penetrating insights on this topic.

Anonymous wrote:Ivy - nuff said!

36 years old - hello, the market has change a lot in the last ten years. Ever heard of Globalizatiiiiion!.. a Zillion jobs have been off shored to India, Argentina etc.... Have you looked at the unemployment rate - you know how many people have given up looking for jobs! Take you head out of the sand!

My head is not in the sand. In the past decade I have worked for three universities and a global association, traveled all over the country, built relationships with donors/members in all kinds of industries, so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. As a matter of fact, at my current organization we talk about globalization all the time so thanks for the "advice," but it's really not necessary.

Anonymous wrote:What kids (and their families) want now is something akin to a resort experience for years at the end of which you are guaranteed a job. This expectation is what's driving "investment" at universities on ever more luxurious and expansive facilities which are not, in the end, all that necessary to learning.

+1000

Ivy - nuff said!

36 years old - hello, the market has change a lot in the last ten years. Ever heard of Globalizatiiiiion!.. a Zillion jobs have been off shored to India, Argentina etc.... Have you looked at the unemployment rate - you know how many people have given up looking for jobs! Take you head out of the sand!

Anonymous wrote:My dd just graduated from an Ivy as an Englis major and has a great job lined up. The WSJ did a great story (I don't have the link sorry) a few months back that many businesses like hiring liberal arts grads over business majors because they can write/think. Colleges shouldn't all turn into trade schools. The liberal arts are great fields of study and folks shouldn't give up on them.

Ding ding! Big hearty congratulations to you and your DD!

The Association of American Colleges and Universities has an initiative called LEAP through which they've conducted research regarding what employers want out of recent college grads (http://www.aacu.org/leap/documents/2009_EmployerSurvey.pdf). All of the skills they say they want can be achieved through studying the liberal arts:

Knowledge of Human Cultures and the Physical and Natural World
• Science and technology 70%
• Global issues 67%*
• The role of the United States in the world 57%
• Cultural diversity in the United States and other countries 57%
• Civic knowledge, participation, and engagement 52%*

Intellectual and Practical Skills
• Written and oral communication 89%
• Critical thinking and analytic reasoning 81%
• Complex problem solving 75%
• Teamwork skills in diverse groups 71%*
• Creativity and innovation 70%
• Information literacy 68%
• Quantitative reasoning 63%

Personal and Social Responsibility
• Ethical decision making 75%
• Intercultural competence (teamwork in diverse groups) 71%*
• Intercultural knowledge (global issues) 67%*
• Civic knowledge, participation, and engagement 52%*

Integrative and Applied Learning
• Applied knowledge in real-world settings 79%

Anonymous wrote:How old are you?

36. So not that old. Since I started at my college in 1995 tuition has more than tripled. Guess what else has expanded exponentially? Cushy dorms and other non-academic facilities. It's all bullshit. Unless my kid gets HUGE scholarships, he will not be going to one of these schools where we are paying a premium for a fancy dorm, luxury workout rooms, deluxe "student centers" and all of the other crap that has NOTHING to do with learning. I still managed to exercise (walking and biking) without a luxury recreation center, entertain myself ($2 movie theater, drive ins, bars in the next town, parties, etc) and stay cool on hot days (go to the library, visit a shopping center, box fan in the window) without all of that crap. But hey - colleges and universities are giving the people what they say they want. People bitch out of one side of their mouths about it but the reality is they are not willing to pay more to retain top faculty and costly learning facilities (labs, etc) without feeling like they are "getting their money's worth," which inevitably translates into a campus that feels like a 4-star resort. Trust me - in my role at universities, I've had these asinine conversations with current and prospective parents and students more times than I care to recall.

My dd just graduated from an Ivy as an Englis major and has a great job lined up. The WSJ did a great story (I don't have the link sorry) a few months back that many businesses like hiring liberal arts grads over business majors because they can write/think. Colleges shouldn't all turn into trade schools. The liberal arts are great fields of study and folks shouldn't give up on them.

How old are you?

Anonymous wrote:No longer worth the money. We're in a new era of changing educational models. Colleges and universities are outmoded so are spending $$ on marketing to survive which drives up tuition. Americans are intent on sending all kids (which didn't happen 30 years ago to college) so will pay 55K a year for a lousy college in the middle of nowhere because they want Jr. to get a job. Yet, that market has changed too. No one with English majors can find jobs. The No. 1 lucractive college major is petroleum engineering. Both of our kids want the BFA (meaning core education) but also to major in computer science (not offered at my fancy college where I majored in English many years ago). The George Mason President said two days ago that their graduates get more jobs and at higher pay than any other school in the UVA system. No I don't have the stats. But the reason is the Dulles Tech. Corridor and the push for Engineering, Robotics, and Computer Science development in that school. http://channels.netscape.com/pf/package.jsp?name=fte/profitablemajors/profitablemajors

Your hypothesis is not true and will never be true. The basic core of education will always be worth an investment. Is it worth $55K a year? Probably not. But I'd argue that no major is worth $55K per year.

Listen, I've worked for universities (as staff, not faculty). They're not outmoded; that's ridiculous. What happens is that people expect greater and greater levels of "service" for their investment, and I'm not talking about educational (teaching) quality. When I went to college my dorm room had no A/C and the furniture was 40 years old. It was good enough. The fitness facilities and student life center were small but it was enough. We were fed and housed, and we had EXCELLENT teachers. What kids (and their families) want now is something akin to a resort experience for years at the end of which you are guaranteed a job. This expectation is what's driving "investment" at universities on ever more luxurious and expansive facilities which are not, in the end, all that necessary to learning. These kids (and in many cases, their parents) fail to equate the effort expended by the student on the resulting outcomes. University is not a passive experience which is "done" to you like a spa day. If you are not willing to work for it (and many of these students are not) well no, you will not be all that marketable regardless of your major. If you work hard and are smart, you can take the skills learned from ANY major and do well in life. I'm a #1 example of that (English AND Theater major THISCLOSE to making six figures). Parents who continue to pay $$$$ for their lazy, entitled kids to fail deserve the results they get, IMO.

No longer worth the money. We're in a new era of changing educational models. Colleges and universities are outmoded so are spending $$ on marketing to survive which drives up tuition. Americans are intent on sending all kids (which didn't happen 30 years ago to college) so will pay 55K a year for a lousy college in the middle of nowhere because they want Jr. to get a job. Yet, that market has changed too. No one with English majors can find jobs. The No. 1 lucractive college major is petroleum engineering. Both of our kids want the BFA (meaning core education) but also to major in computer science (not offered at my fancy college where I majored in English many years ago). The George Mason President said two days ago that their graduates get more jobs and at higher pay than any other school in the UVA system. No I don't have the stats. But the reason is the Dulles Tech. Corridor and the push for Engineering, Robotics, and Computer Science development in that school. http://channels.netscape.com/pf/package.jsp?name=fte/profitablemajors/profitablemajors

changing times, all about $$

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/23/opinion/sunday/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-english-major.html?_r=0

This makes me sad, for the reasons it makes the writer sad.

Signed, an English major