Anonymous
06/15/2013 19:16
Subject: One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
Anonymous wrote:Well, here's the problem, not all students are computer geeks or budding engineers (and those are the majors with the best post-college job prospects).
So then what is practical? Most college majors, outside of engineering or IT, don't translate to a specific job -- even math and science. Science majors actually find that just a bachelors won't get them very far job-wise. Math majors who don't want to teach or don't want to work in statistics/insurance will also have difficulty, unless they have some strong computer skills to fall back on.
And therein lies the key -- skills! Guess what? You can major in a liberal arts type major and still take courses in very specific technical computer skills and/or do internships that will boost your job prospects.
Most of the people I know who found the best jobs after college weren't the ones with STEM majors, but ones who did internships and developed practical, highly marketable skills.
But even IT can be outsourced now, so that's not as secure.
Thank you so much for writing this. Could not have said it better and I am a college counselor. There are very few majors that translate to a career. And you are absolutely correct in that the STEM majors are the best bet for entry- level jobs but the majority of students do not have the interest and/ or apptitude - I see the test scores daily. Even my own DS is not a stem kid. So, I want him to go to a liberal arts college, major in history, english, whatever and get his BA or BS. Learn to think, write, mature and do an internship each summer. From there, he will learn things he likes, does not like and can work at something. Then he can go to graduate school. I also don't want to pay 200k for an english degree. We are lucky in VA that we have plenty of state schools that he can go to. Not the top 3 but the next wrung down is fine. Graduate school will matter more. I have been working with college kids for over 15 years. Very few know what they want. This is not the counselors fault. Also have worked with adults and they still don't know what they want! As a parent, and I am one too, it is up to us. You have to get your kids to engage and experience life. Almost to a one my students fill out their journals on how they spend their time with video games, on- line with friends, hanging out with friends or sleeping.
Volunteer, write, plant a garden, cook, read, coach a sports team, learn prgramming, take pictures! A few do but most don't and that has to start when young and in the home. You can't blame the schools.
Anonymous
06/14/2013 23:15
Subject: One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
Well, here's the problem, not all students are computer geeks or budding engineers (and those are the majors with the best post-college job prospects).
So then what is practical? Most college majors, outside of engineering or IT, don't translate to a specific job -- even math and science. Science majors actually find that just a bachelors won't get them very far job-wise. Math majors who don't want to teach or don't want to work in statistics/insurance will also have difficulty, unless they have some strong computer skills to fall back on.
And therein lies the key -- skills! Guess what? You can major in a liberal arts type major and still take courses in very specific technical computer skills and/or do internships that will boost your job prospects.
Most of the people I know who found the best jobs after college weren't the ones with STEM majors, but ones who did internships and developed practical, highly marketable skills.
But even IT can be outsourced now, so that's not as secure.
So what you say sounds really good, but I think it's complicated, and there are many ways to ensure you'll be marketable after college.
So then what is practical? Most college majors, outside of engineering or IT, don't translate to a specific job -- even math and science. Science majors actually find that just a bachelors won't get them very far job-wise. Math majors who don't want to teach or don't want to work in statistics/insurance will also have difficulty, unless they have some strong computer skills to fall back on.
And therein lies the key -- skills! Guess what? You can major in a liberal arts type major and still take courses in very specific technical computer skills and/or do internships that will boost your job prospects.
Most of the people I know who found the best jobs after college weren't the ones with STEM majors, but ones who did internships and developed practical, highly marketable skills.
But even IT can be outsourced now, so that's not as secure.
So what you say sounds really good, but I think it's complicated, and there are many ways to ensure you'll be marketable after college.
Anonymous
06/14/2013 22:47
Subject: One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
While I wouldn't force my kids to go to medical school (not that there's much money there these days, anyway), I do plan to be very practical about how they are going to spend their college careers. Anthropology? Philosophy? Probably not the best choice in terms of the job market.
This is also assuming the kids go to college. Cooking school seems a whole lot cheaper and might be better suited for a kid who has no interest in biology but who loves to be creative and cook. I don't think college is always has to be the goal, especially considering the cost.
This is also assuming the kids go to college. Cooking school seems a whole lot cheaper and might be better suited for a kid who has no interest in biology but who loves to be creative and cook. I don't think college is always has to be the goal, especially considering the cost.
Anonymous
06/14/2013 22:40
Subject: One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
Anonymous wrote:It depends on your child.
DH and I could not function well in something that we were not passionate about. As it happens, our passion is biomedical research and it is a field that does NOT pay well at all, considering the years of graduate school we invested in it! DH also has an MD, but hates practicing it.
On the other hand, my dentist SIL is pressuring (forcing) all of her four children to be either doctors, dentists, or veterinarians - even though one is really artistic and not science-inclined at all! She is all about the money and to hell with what her children really want.
The best thing to do is to try to raise your children to be adaptive and flexible, because who knows how and in which country the world's economy will gravitate towards? Learning good social skills is paramount in any profession to network efficiently. Maybe Mandarin wouldn't come amiss either
I don't think the focus should be on making a lot of money and acquiring the education to achieve that goal. The crucial thing is to obtain an education which ultimately leads to a job in which one makes enough money to maintain a half-way decent standard of living and pay off one's student debt. Everyone does not have to become a doctor, dentist or vet and for the artistically inclined child it would be doing a disservice to him/her if the educational focus met that person's strengths and left the individual unemployed. Surely, one can major in an area that enables one to get a reasonable job and still satisfy one's artistic inclination through other channels.
Anonymous
06/14/2013 22:02
Subject: One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
It depends on your child.
DH and I could not function well in something that we were not passionate about. As it happens, our passion is biomedical research and it is a field that does NOT pay well at all, considering the years of graduate school we invested in it! DH also has an MD, but hates practicing it.
On the other hand, my dentist SIL is pressuring (forcing) all of her four children to be either doctors, dentists, or veterinarians - even though one is really artistic and not science-inclined at all! She is all about the money and to hell with what her children really want.
The best thing to do is to try to raise your children to be adaptive and flexible, because who knows how and in which country the world's economy will gravitate towards? Learning good social skills is paramount in any profession to network efficiently. Maybe Mandarin wouldn't come amiss either
DH and I could not function well in something that we were not passionate about. As it happens, our passion is biomedical research and it is a field that does NOT pay well at all, considering the years of graduate school we invested in it! DH also has an MD, but hates practicing it.
On the other hand, my dentist SIL is pressuring (forcing) all of her four children to be either doctors, dentists, or veterinarians - even though one is really artistic and not science-inclined at all! She is all about the money and to hell with what her children really want.
The best thing to do is to try to raise your children to be adaptive and flexible, because who knows how and in which country the world's economy will gravitate towards? Learning good social skills is paramount in any profession to network efficiently. Maybe Mandarin wouldn't come amiss either
Anonymous
06/14/2013 22:02
Subject: Re:One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
I agree with you OP. I've said repeatedly, that as much as I love education, education for education's sake is a luxury that we can't afford. I also agree with the PP that its a parents responsibility to teach this. My oldest is in high school and interested in a trade, not college. After sharing this with his school counselors, I've seen a lot of support. In fact, earlier this year, my son was struggling in a particular class. When the teacher learned of my son's vocational interests, the teacher and school counselor got my son moved to a smaller class with two teachers for that particular subject because they felt it was important for his future.
For the PP who wants a different but lesser paying career than law, if you haven't built your lifestyle around a law salary, you can always do something different.
For the PP who wants a different but lesser paying career than law, if you haven't built your lifestyle around a law salary, you can always do something different.
Anonymous
06/14/2013 21:54
Subject: One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
I agree the counselor should mention things like job prospects as something to consider. My parents drilled it into me that I need to choose a practical major and think about job prospects and making enough money to support myself and even a family if the man I marry loses a job, etc. I'm glad the encouraged me to be practical. They were fine with me taking some fun free spirited classes too, but no way would they pay for me to be a drama or philosophy major.
Anonymous
06/14/2013 17:51
Subject: Re:One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
Anonymous wrote:And how do you know that guidance counselors don't do this already? Don't most 17 and 18 yr old know it all anyway?
Just talking to kids and hearing about kids who graduated from college in fields that offer almost zero prospects for a decent job especially in a tough economy. Yep, 17 and 18 year olds think they know it all and as a parent having to counter what counselors said is not easy. After all, what do parents know when it comes to the opinion of most teenagers?
I know that I had a huge struggle with my children over what they should do when they went to college. They did finally listen to me - or perhaps others influenced them as well - and today they acknowledge I was right. But I know their counselors were no help in balancing their fields of interest with the potential for obtaining a decent job that would allow them to earn enough to live comfortably and pay their student loans.
Anonymous
06/14/2013 17:00
Subject: Re:One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
Passion for your field is vital; however, no one should take on a ruinous loan to pursue his passion in a field with poor job prospects.
If you have a passion for a certain field, you can follow your dreams at a low budget college or earn a scholarship or work your way and live at home; take AP classes that count for college credit etc.
If you have a passion for a certain field, you can follow your dreams at a low budget college or earn a scholarship or work your way and live at home; take AP classes that count for college credit etc.
Anonymous
06/14/2013 16:59
Subject: Re:One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
And how do you know that guidance counselors don't do this already? Don't most 17 and 18 yr old know it all anyway?
Anonymous
06/14/2013 16:18
Subject: Re:One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
OP, I think that's the parent's responsibility.
Anonymous
06/14/2013 14:32
Subject: Re:One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
I feel the same way and my kids are only 4 and 6. DH and I are middle class and don't have any family/friends connections or networks that would let our kids get a good job after majoring in liberal arts. I am pushing prepping for STEM so they have more options in what to major in. I won't pay for private liberal arts college for either of them. If they want to study liberal arts, they can at our in-state school. I would rather they learn how to be a carpenter or plumber and open their own businesses.
Anonymous
06/14/2013 14:19
Subject: One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
I don't know, OP. I am a person who chose a practical career (law) only to discover I'm much happier in another field (where the pay isn't as good). Personally I'm the sort who needs to feel passion for my career or I cannot do it well or feel fulfilled. If you have kids like this, good luck trying to steer them too much in their career choice. Of course practicality is important, but so are dreams. At least they are to me.
Anonymous
06/14/2013 14:15
Subject: One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
Part of the problem is that the more selective colleges insist you have a "passion" during the acceptance rounds. As a result, the more selective colleges are more likely to accept the budding musicians, environmentalists and not-for-profits workers. How many 17-year-olds feel passionate about economics?
Anonymous
06/14/2013 14:01
Subject: One of my gripes with guidance counselors in school and college.....
In an era where student debt is increasing at a phenomenal rate and the cost of college education becomes increasingly unaffordable, one of my gripes with guidance counselors at schools and colleges is the lack of emphasis they give to the prospects in the job market when kids graduate from college.
I have three children - who are now well employed - but I had to deal with this same problem when they were in high school and then in college. It is this inclination to tell kids to do what they feel passionate about with zero emphasis on the issue of their job prospects after they graduate from college that causes the problem. So we have a lot of kids who end up majoring in areas that offer little in the way of job opportunities. To make matters worse, they are also saddled with a lot of student debt.
I wish guidance counselors would caution kids to keep in mind that they do have to find a job after the complete their expensive education and so whatever their passion may be they cannot lose sight of which fields have suitable job prospects.
In the case of my kids, I had to fill that role and effectively countermand the advice offered by their counselors. They did resist to some extent but now they acknowledge that they are glad they entered fields of study that enhanced their employment prospects.
Do other parents share my views on this issue?
I have three children - who are now well employed - but I had to deal with this same problem when they were in high school and then in college. It is this inclination to tell kids to do what they feel passionate about with zero emphasis on the issue of their job prospects after they graduate from college that causes the problem. So we have a lot of kids who end up majoring in areas that offer little in the way of job opportunities. To make matters worse, they are also saddled with a lot of student debt.
I wish guidance counselors would caution kids to keep in mind that they do have to find a job after the complete their expensive education and so whatever their passion may be they cannot lose sight of which fields have suitable job prospects.
In the case of my kids, I had to fill that role and effectively countermand the advice offered by their counselors. They did resist to some extent but now they acknowledge that they are glad they entered fields of study that enhanced their employment prospects.
Do other parents share my views on this issue?