Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 14:02     Subject: s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
Funny how people can be loosey goosey on what DC needs just because it's DC. Sad. Most other jurisdictions, including those surrounding DC have G/T programs based upon time-tested research on their viability, usefulness and efficacy. The flippant "I don't think we need a special program for G/T kids" would get you a blank stare sideways if you blurted it out in Fairfax where they have AAP programs designed just for that. Same in PG. Why would it be different in DC? It wouldn't. Just DC is so mismanaged and disorganized, not to mention the parents here who's comments do nothing but bite their nose to spite their faces, that G/T cannot be implemented. Also, the smokescreen BS about DC's specialty/advanced courses is just that, a smokescreen. Sometimes it's hard to accept that a system is failing. A movie has been made about it, the political sphere is abuzz with politicians stepping in for control (ala Catania, and the mayor supporting giving the Chancellor chartering powers) and people cry about it every day and yet you still have these deniers out there. Let's hope for everyone's sake, these people aren't parents.
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 13:46     Subject: s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
I don't think we need a special program for G/T kids. I do think we need a richer, more challenging curriculum that offers more substance than simply testing the hell out of reading and math.
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 13:32     Subject: Re:s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because no one calls it that.
I think OP really doesn't know much about gifted programs and is indeed just looking to pick a fight. The simple fact that he/she is talking about "gifted classes" is testimony to that. The presumption behind "gifted" and "talented" programs is that some kids (I think estimates range from 3-5%) ARE gifted. They don't need to occasional class here and there but an entirely separate program.
But I think what OP is asking is why there (presumably) aren't enough advanced classes. That there aren't is just plain wrong; though possibly there aren't enough. Middle schools and more so high schools in DC (and in truth many elementary schools) do offer advanced options in various formats. For political reasons, no one calls that "gifted and talented" but if you took the time to compare, say, Fairfax' definition of G&T (http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/column/columnlevelIV.shtml) to what DC does on the ground, there isn't much difference, just differently framed and different lingo.
Now, maybe the problem is that, in search of "advanced classes", you'll need to read up a little and know what you're looking for. You won't find what you're looking for neatly labelled in DC.

I feel like you and I live in parallel universes. I have visited and studied five DCPS middle schools, and aside from Deal, I just don't see the kind of programs that are in abundance in Montgomery, Arlington and Fairfax. Please describe the course sequence for a very bright child at Hardy/Stuart Hobson/Jefferson/Eliot Hine.


My point exactly, not neatly labeled, no clear course sequence. But all of these offer multiple ways in which an advanced learner can go above and beyond the basic standards. By "multiple", I mean that your advance learner may take tracked math classes, non-tracked reading but advanced book clubs, and some extended advanced research or science project.
If you take the time to read through the Fairfax plan, then you find great deal of labeling, but it and substantively boils down to the same thing.

By "you need to know what you're looking for", I mean that you really have to unpack how some of the options you enumerate offer advanced learning opportunities. They do so quite differently. Hardy & Stuart-Hobson have a similar take and Eliot-Hine and Jefferson have another one. The first two are more directly premised on tracking, the latter two on ability-grouping (http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/brown-center-chalkboard/posts/2013/04/03-ability-grouping-tracking-loveless). And if you are dead-set on your child fully maximizing on advanced offerings, pick a school where everybody else isn't already an advanced learner.

Maybe this isn't what you mean by G&T programs (as opposed to advanced courses/opportunities). But if it isn't, then Fairfax doesn't have one either, just calls it that. (I don't know about MoCo.)
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 13:25     Subject: s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
The problem is that parents want to rate and rank their children into a public school system. You can't do that at any private school. When I hear parents say they want gifted and talented programs, it is all well and good. But there's not enough of gifted and talented students in one grade level to make a school viable.

To make any school viable you would need about 500 kids tested per entry grade level, just to weed out 250. That ain't happening in this city, I don't care how many strollers you see at the park.

It ain't happening. No way, no how.
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 12:40     Subject: s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:In most threads, no matter the topic, someone always circles back to the fact that DC does not have test-in gifted/advanced classes especially at the elementary level. I just read on a middle school thread that Deal is no longer offer "honors" courses etc. I get that DCPS is very politically correct and wants to keep ALL kids together regardless of ability but don't they realize that they would keep a heck of a lot more high SES families in the school system if they offered a legit program like most surrounding counties. Its just a a fact that the smarter kids will be bored in a class that teaches to the most struggling studends. ANd in DC that is signficant. So my question is what would it take for DCPS to actually offer gifted classes? And why aren't more parents organizing and demanding this? I suspect its because they worry about appearing racists/classist or elitist. But it may be the thing that finally saves DCPS from losing another 5k students. I keep thinking a test-in model at an underperforming school would do wonders to bring in more parents, money and volunteers which could benefit the entire school.
Am I missing something? Why aren't parents demanding this? (And Im not talking about DCPS and their bs "enrichment programs" a couple of hours a week either). Im sure I will get flamed for this but I think a ton of parents are thinking the same thing but just afraid to bring it up at a PTA meeting.


If DCPS opened a test-in G/T elementary school and your child was selected, how far would you travel? What if the school was opened in the old Savoy elementary school located in Ward 8, but directly across from a subway station, would you enroll your child? Or, would you require the new test-in G/T school to be placed in Wards 1-4, and maybe 6?


It makes more sense for such a school to be centrally located in the city. It also makes more sense for their eventually to be more than such school.
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 12:36     Subject: s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
Anonymous wrote:Probably because there aren't enough "gifted" children in DC to warrant such a program.


Not true. Given statistics from study after study, 3-5% gifted & talented is typical for any given student populace, and 75,000 plus or minus students in the DC school system, that gives you anywhere from 2,250 - 3,750 gifted & talented students spread out across DC's school system whose needs are currently not being met. That's definitely more than enough to warrant a FAR more robust program.
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 12:32     Subject: Re:s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
Anonymous wrote:Because no one calls it that.
I think OP really doesn't know much about gifted programs and is indeed just looking to pick a fight. The simple fact that he/she is talking about "gifted classes" is testimony to that. The presumption behind "gifted" and "talented" programs is that some kids (I think estimates range from 3-5%) ARE gifted. They don't need to occasional class here and there but an entirely separate program.
But I think what OP is asking is why there (presumably) aren't enough advanced classes. That there aren't is just plain wrong; though possibly there aren't enough. Middle schools and more so high schools in DC (and in truth many elementary schools) do offer advanced options in various formats. For political reasons, no one calls that "gifted and talented" but if you took the time to compare, say, Fairfax' definition of G&T (http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/column/columnlevelIV.shtml) to what DC does on the ground, there isn't much difference, just differently framed and different lingo.
Now, maybe the problem is that, in search of "advanced classes", you'll need to read up a little and know what you're looking for. You won't find what you're looking for neatly labelled in DC.

I feel like you and I live in parallel universes. I have visited and studied five DCPS middle schools, and aside from Deal, I just don't see the kind of programs that are in abundance in Montgomery, Arlington and Fairfax. Please describe the course sequence for a very bright child at Hardy/Stuart Hobson/Jefferson/Eliot Hine.
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 12:26     Subject: s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
^^ this. Thanks for clarifying.
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 12:16     Subject: Re:s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
Because no one calls it that.
I think OP really doesn't know much about gifted programs and is indeed just looking to pick a fight. The simple fact that he/she is talking about "gifted classes" is testimony to that. The presumption behind "gifted" and "talented" programs is that some kids (I think estimates range from 3-5%) ARE gifted. They don't need to occasional class here and there but an entirely separate program.
But I think what OP is asking is why there (presumably) aren't enough advanced classes. That there aren't is just plain wrong; though possibly there aren't enough. Middle schools and more so high schools in DC (and in truth many elementary schools) do offer advanced options in various formats. For political reasons, no one calls that "gifted and talented" but if you took the time to compare, say, Fairfax' definition of G&T (http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/column/columnlevelIV.shtml) to what DC does on the ground, there isn't much difference, just differently framed and different lingo.
Now, maybe the problem is that, in search of "advanced classes", you'll need to read up a little and know what you're looking for. You won't find what you're looking for neatly labelled in DC.
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 12:13     Subject: s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
Anonymous wrote:In most threads, no matter the topic, someone always circles back to the fact that DC does not have test-in gifted/advanced classes especially at the elementary level. I just read on a middle school thread that Deal is no longer offer "honors" courses etc. I get that DCPS is very politically correct and wants to keep ALL kids together regardless of ability but don't they realize that they would keep a heck of a lot more high SES families in the school system if they offered a legit program like most surrounding counties. Its just a a fact that the smarter kids will be bored in a class that teaches to the most struggling studends. ANd in DC that is signficant. So my question is what would it take for DCPS to actually offer gifted classes? And why aren't more parents organizing and demanding this? I suspect its because they worry about appearing racists/classist or elitist. But it may be the thing that finally saves DCPS from losing another 5k students. I keep thinking a test-in model at an underperforming school would do wonders to bring in more parents, money and volunteers which could benefit the entire school.
Am I missing something? Why aren't parents demanding this? (And Im not talking about DCPS and their bs "enrichment programs" a couple of hours a week either). Im sure I will get flamed for this but I think a ton of parents are thinking the same thing but just afraid to bring it up at a PTA meeting.


If DCPS opened a test-in G/T elementary school and your child was selected, how far would you travel? What if the school was opened in the old Savoy elementary school located in Ward 8, but directly across from a subway station, would you enroll your child? Or, would you require the new test-in G/T school to be placed in Wards 1-4, and maybe 6?
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 12:09     Subject: s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
They all take the DCCAS -- why not use that as a starting point for grouping? Then there wouldn't be the need to bribe/coerce the kids to do well. Then, the students in the higher level classes would have to earn the right to stay int hem and students in the other classes could strive to be moved up. Totally fair and ha been done in other systems.
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 12:09     Subject: s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
Anonymous wrote:Probably because there aren't enough "gifted" children in DC to warrant such a program.


This is the federal city and more and more families are moving here. I think you are under-estimating the numbers of advanced learners here.
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 11:39     Subject: s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
Anonymous wrote:Probably because there aren't enough "gifted" children in DC to warrant such a program.

I don't believe this to be the case. But if it was, isn't it a self-fulfilling prophesy - if you can't accommodate bright children, then parents won't enroll bright children in DCPS?
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 11:19     Subject: s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
Probably because there aren't enough "gifted" children in DC to warrant such a program.
Anonymous
Post 06/03/2013 10:54     Subject: s/o Gifted classes in DC schools
In most threads, no matter the topic, someone always circles back to the fact that DC does not have test-in gifted/advanced classes especially at the elementary level. I just read on a middle school thread that Deal is no longer offer "honors" courses etc. I get that DCPS is very politically correct and wants to keep ALL kids together regardless of ability but don't they realize that they would keep a heck of a lot more high SES families in the school system if they offered a legit program like most surrounding counties. Its just a a fact that the smarter kids will be bored in a class that teaches to the most struggling studends. ANd in DC that is signficant. So my question is what would it take for DCPS to actually offer gifted classes? And why aren't more parents organizing and demanding this? I suspect its because they worry about appearing racists/classist or elitist. But it may be the thing that finally saves DCPS from losing another 5k students. I keep thinking a test-in model at an underperforming school would do wonders to bring in more parents, money and volunteers which could benefit the entire school.
Am I missing something? Why aren't parents demanding this? (And Im not talking about DCPS and their bs "enrichment programs" a couple of hours a week either). Im sure I will get flamed for this but I think a ton of parents are thinking the same thing but just afraid to bring it up at a PTA meeting.