Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to get a govt attorney position right now but keep getting rejected. Any advice?

Unless you have significant relevant specialized expertise you're unlikely to get hired. First of all, many agencies are cutting back. My agency has a hiring freeze and an informal (for now) 3-for-1 replacement ratio, and when we have an opening we have 200-300 resumes including partners at BigLaw firms who would love to get out.

So it's really tough to get into....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree-- most Hill jobs are not family friendly because the schedules are not predictable and there can be late nights and/or face time.

I am not at DOJ, but my sense is that whether it is family friendly depends a lot on the specific unit you are in-- you could be doing trials, or you could be doing briefs defending trials, or you could be doing something else.

I have been in house and am now at an agency-- I think both of those tend to have good, fairly predictable hours. The agency will let me telecommute regularly which is great. Where I am the work is great, but friends say some agencies are less challenging/interesting.

My sense is that it may be harder to get into an inhouse/agency job without some expertise in the subject matter area.

Good luck and congrats!

Thank you for this - this is my impression too. I'm worried about not having specialized experience. Have been doing general lit, am a great writer (bragging, but this is anonymous, so who cares). I'm really hoping there are jobs somewhere for a fairly junior lawyer without tons of substantive experience in a particular subject matter...

Thanks everyone for their thoughtful responses.

Do you have any employment law experience and is this something you are at all interested in (or could deal with doing)? A lot of agencies need lawyers for employment work before the MSPB and EEOC, maybe FLRA as well. These are litigating positions but the hours will not be nearly as bad as a typical firm or even DOJ, and you will have much more independence and authority (and gain much more substantive experience, as well). If you are still fairly junior, and don't mind taking a serious pay cut, you might be able to get such a position as a GS-12 or so. Do that for a few years and you may be able to transition to the MSPB or EEOC themselves. I can't speak for EEOC, but I work at MSPB and we have wonderful hours. The work is substantively similar to what employment law attorneys at other agencies do, but it is primarily non-litigating (some appellate litigation, which is very reasonable) -- rather, it is more like clerking for a judge, as we have attorneys who write decisions for the Board members. Some people don't find this interesting -- it is not nearly as interesting as working for many DOJ components, I admit -- but it is steady, regular work, with regular hours, and tons of independence. Also an opportunity to develop a real subject-matter expertise, which didn't matter to me when I was a general litigator at a firm, but certainly made my life much easier once I developed enough experience to see the same type of cases over and over.

If your primary interest is writing (as is mine), something like this could be a good fit for you. There may be other agencies with similar opportunities -- I think the VA or some part of it may have something similar. You should spend some time on the OPM attorney listings and sign up to have all attorney openings emailed to you. Be open-minded about what you read. You can always apply and find out the details later. I'd never even heard of MSPB when I applied there.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finding a family friendly attorney job with decent pay is near impossible these days. Have you thought about staying home for a few years?

This is spectacularly bad advice if you ever hope to go back to practicing law.

Well I'm a NP but I worked with a woman who went from Biglaw to staying at home for a few years and she was able to get a federal lawyer position but I think the market was remarkably different then.

I'm trying to get a govt attorney position right now but keep getting rejected. Any advice?

Anonymous wrote:Finding a family friendly attorney job with decent pay is near impossible these days. Have you thought about staying home for a few years?

This is spectacularly bad advice if you ever hope to go back to practicing law.

Midsize firm. You still work hard but nothing like big law. Find one with women partners with young children and husbands who work.

Finding a family friendly attorney job with decent pay is near impossible these days. Have you thought about staying home for a few years?

I also work for DOJ GS 15, interesting work- 40 hours- used to include some travel every few months but none this year or next due to budget. OP I wish you luck, but seriously you are 2 years late to the game- hiring freezes, numerous competitive and over qualified candidates for every position...

Anonymous wrote:I agree-- most Hill jobs are not family friendly because the schedules are not predictable and there can be late nights and/or face time.

I am not at DOJ, but my sense is that whether it is family friendly depends a lot on the specific unit you are in-- you could be doing trials, or you could be doing briefs defending trials, or you could be doing something else.

I have been in house and am now at an agency-- I think both of those tend to have good, fairly predictable hours. The agency will let me telecommute regularly which is great. Where I am the work is great, but friends say some agencies are less challenging/interesting.

My sense is that it may be harder to get into an inhouse/agency job without some expertise in the subject matter area.

Good luck and congrats!

Thank you for this - this is my impression too. I'm worried about not having specialized experience. Have been doing general lit, am a great writer (bragging, but this is anonymous, so who cares). I'm really hoping there are jobs somewhere for a fairly junior lawyer without tons of substantive experience in a particular subject matter...

Thanks everyone for their thoughtful responses.

Anonymous wrote:I work for DOJ and its great. I'm a GS-15, and I make about $130K. Regular hours, interesting work.

Are you willing to share what division you work in?

Anonymous wrote:Don't work in congress, I was a Hill & then White House staffer before kids. Lots of 80 hour weeks, not family friendly. I worked at a notforprofit now.

Good advice here.

May I ask what kind of work you do at the nonprofit? Government relations, advising on lobbying issues, etc?

I agree-- most Hill jobs are not family friendly because the schedules are not predictable and there can be late nights and/or face time.

I am not at DOJ, but my sense is that whether it is family friendly depends a lot on the specific unit you are in-- you could be doing trials, or you could be doing briefs defending trials, or you could be doing something else.

I have been in house and am now at an agency-- I think both of those tend to have good, fairly predictable hours. The agency will let me telecommute regularly which is great. Where I am the work is great, but friends say some agencies are less challenging/interesting.

My sense is that it may be harder to get into an inhouse/agency job without some expertise in the subject matter area.

Good luck and congrats!

I work for DOJ and its great. I'm a GS-15, and I make about $130K. Regular hours, interesting work.

Don't work in congress, I was a Hill & then White House staffer before kids. Lots of 80 hour weeks, not family friendly. I worked at a notforprofit now.

I'm due in October (I'm "Plum" for any of the October due date posters) and am really at the end of my rope with this job. I can't imagine how I'll feel once I have an infant at home. I have a couple of years under my belt and my loans are almost paid off, so I'm starting to think about other jobs I can apply for next year. But honestly, I just don't have a sense of what other jobs are out there.

Attorney moms who like their jobs: What lawyer or law-related jobs have reasonable hours and a decent amount of flexibility? I'm thinking I might like work in the executive branch agencies or Congress, or maybe a nonprofit. I'm doing litigation now but honestly would prefer not to do litigation going forward. I'm not super concerned about pay at this point, since I won't have loans crushing me anymore.

Specifics would be appreciated, if you're willing to give them -- e.g., which agency you work for, hours per day or per week, pay.

Thanks, everyone.