Anonymous wrote:Duh

Double duh.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do the dirt poor, uneducated, non-English speaking Asian immigrants factor into this? Somehow, they still kick butt in the US.

Most Asian immigrants are not dirt poor or uneducated. Koreans, Chinese, Taiwanese, etc immigrants are highly educated and upper middle class or rich even by American standards. You can find the article in the NY Times about them becoming the majority in San Marino where the avg income is double that of Beverly Hills.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/29/us/asians-now-largest-immigrant-group-in-southern-california.html?hpw

The Census data are pretty clear on this: the average immigrant from Asia is MORE likely than the average American to have a college education. The reason some of these immigrants have blue collar jobs is that their English is not good enough to practice their professions here, and some of their certifications/ credentials don't transfer. The educational capital, though, is there, and it is transmitted to the kids.

Anonymous wrote:How do the dirt poor, uneducated, non-English speaking Asian immigrants factor into this? Somehow, they still kick butt in the US.

Most Asian immigrants are not dirt poor or uneducated. Koreans, Chinese, Taiwanese, etc immigrants are highly educated and upper middle class or rich even by American standards. You can find the article in the NY Times about them becoming the majority in San Marino where the avg income is double that of Beverly Hills.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/29/us/asians-now-largest-immigrant-group-in-southern-california.html?hpw

Anonymous wrote:One fact the author skirts over to stand on his soap box at the end...

"The academic gap is widening because rich students are increasingly entering kindergarten much better prepared to succeed in school than middle-class students. This difference in preparation persists through elementary and high school."

This is a key fact that is too far often overlooked. Evidence from HeadStart shows that children can come prepared to Kindergarten but the gains from that preparation are gone by 3rd grade. Because it's not enough to just get kids ready for Kindergarten. The same intensity and persistence needs to be there every year from there on out.
Since it's not likely going to be, the achievement gap will persist.

But the things he's talking about - reading with your kids, being on top of homework etc., surely those are behaviors that can be passed to other SESs. To some degree I felt like this article is hopeful - the things that are making a difference are things many parents can learn to do (though I fully agree with his premise of needing more support with quality child care, etc.).

Or am I getting this all wrong?

One fact the author skirts over to stand on his soap box at the end...

"The academic gap is widening because rich students are increasingly entering kindergarten much better prepared to succeed in school than middle-class students. This difference in preparation persists through elementary and high school."

This is a key fact that is too far often overlooked. Evidence from HeadStart shows that children can come prepared to Kindergarten but the gains from that preparation are gone by 3rd grade. Because it's not enough to just get kids ready for Kindergarten. The same intensity and persistence needs to be there every year from there on out.
Since it's not likely going to be, the achievement gap will persist.

Not 21:21 but do you think it could be due to perceived expectations about what the kids should achieve given what their parents have achieved, ie, more successful parents should have successful children and/or that success and no less is expected? A bit of raising the bar high and people turning out what you expect to be?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I imagine that almost all of those who are reading this and thinking of themselves as "middle class" in this analysis are in fact not what he means by middle class. If you put the top 10% of income or certainly if you include even the top 25% as the high income and everyone else as middle class until you reach the working poor most of DCUM are in that high income group. If your family makes $150K or more, you are not the middle class families that are being addressed here.

20:59. I agree. I'm in the top 10% income-wise, but grew up lower middle class/working class. I feel I got as good an education as did my wealthy classmates. But I did most of my schooling before 1980, as mentioned in the article. Educational opportunities were more equal back then. Now that I have a much higher income, I don't feel I'm doing anything significantly different with my kids. I do feel I can provide more networking opportunities that enable my kids to have experiences I never could. And they definitely learn from that. But that's now that they are older. Not before kindergarten.

My brother, on the other hand, is solidly middle class, divorced and making $60,000 a year. His kids do pretty much everything mine do, but they are not performing as well in school. This is anecdotal only, of course, but I don't understand why the disparity occurs. Is it peer group?

This is interesting PP. According to the article, much of the disparity would relate to how you and your brother parented the kids when they were small. Would you say that all the cousins entered kindergarten at the same level?

Yes. I'd say they were all very similar in kindergarten and the disparities became more apparent around 4th grade. All went to high quality day cares in their respective towns. We only live 1/2 hour from each other, so things aren't that much different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I imagine that almost all of those who are reading this and thinking of themselves as "middle class" in this analysis are in fact not what he means by middle class. If you put the top 10% of income or certainly if you include even the top 25% as the high income and everyone else as middle class until you reach the working poor most of DCUM are in that high income group. If your family makes $150K or more, you are not the middle class families that are being addressed here.

20:59. I agree. I'm in the top 10% income-wise, but grew up lower middle class/working class. I feel I got as good an education as did my wealthy classmates. But I did most of my schooling before 1980, as mentioned in the article. Educational opportunities were more equal back then. Now that I have a much higher income, I don't feel I'm doing anything significantly different with my kids. I do feel I can provide more networking opportunities that enable my kids to have experiences I never could. And they definitely learn from that. But that's now that they are older. Not before kindergarten.

My brother, on the other hand, is solidly middle class, divorced and making $60,000 a year. His kids do pretty much everything mine do, but they are not performing as well in school. This is anecdotal only, of course, but I don't understand why the disparity occurs. Is it peer group?

This is interesting PP. According to the article, much of the disparity would relate to how you and your brother parented the kids when they were small. Would you say that all the cousins entered kindergarten at the same level?

Anonymous wrote:I imagine that almost all of those who are reading this and thinking of themselves as "middle class" in this analysis are in fact not what he means by middle class. If you put the top 10% of income or certainly if you include even the top 25% as the high income and everyone else as middle class until you reach the working poor most of DCUM are in that high income group. If your family makes $150K or more, you are not the middle class families that are being addressed here.

20:59. I agree. I'm in the top 10% income-wise, but grew up lower middle class/working class. I feel I got as good an education as did my wealthy classmates. But I did most of my schooling before 1980, as mentioned in the article. Educational opportunities were more equal back then. Now that I have a much higher income, I don't feel I'm doing anything significantly different with my kids. I do feel I can provide more networking opportunities that enable my kids to have experiences I never could. And they definitely learn from that. But that's now that they are older. Not before kindergarten.

My brother, on the other hand, is solidly middle class, divorced and making $60,000 a year. His kids do pretty much everything mine do, but they are not performing as well in school. This is anecdotal only, of course, but I don't understand why the disparity occurs. Is it peer group?

I imagine that almost all of those who are reading this and thinking of themselves as "middle class" in this analysis are in fact not what he means by middle class. If you put the top 10% of income or certainly if you include even the top 25% as the high income and everyone else as middle class until you reach the working poor most of DCUM are in that high income group. If your family makes $150K or more, you are not the middle class families that are being addressed here.

Duh

How do the dirt poor, uneducated, non-English speaking Asian immigrants factor into this? Somehow, they still kick butt in the US.

They don't specify what they mean by middle class- which would help answer PPs question.

What shocked me was the concept that at the end of the day it's the early years which are making the lasting difference. I thought headstart and the like had been discredited?

This is really disturbing. I wonder if it's a sign of a shrinking middle class. What types of resources do we need to focus our middle class kids that we don't? I understand the achievement gap with lower income kids. It's not just the schools. It's a complex mixture of culture, lack of resources, health issues, work issues, housing issues, personal safety issues, and nutrition/hunger issues. But I thought most of these very basic needs were met in the middle class.

I found his conclusions very interesting.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/27/no-rich-child-left-behind/

"If not the usual suspects, what’s going on? It boils down to this: The academic gap is widening because rich students are increasingly entering kindergarten much better prepared to succeed in school than middle-class students. This difference in preparation persists through elementary and high school.
...
But rising income inequality explains, at best, half of the increase in the rich-poor academic achievement gap. It’s not just that the rich have more money than they used to, it’s that they are using it differently. This is where things get really interesting.

High-income families are increasingly focusing their resources — their money, time and knowledge of what it takes to be successful in school — on their children’s cognitive development and educational success. They are doing this because educational success is much more important than it used to be, even for the rich."