Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 18:02     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?


I'm in that bracket...and a Republican. However you may be surprised by my answer:

You're not missing anything. Instead of using "unfair" I'll just say that is is not proportionate.

I don't mind paying more taxes - I can afford to do it, and we ought to do it b/c the country needs help.

However - what I bristle at is that people who pay nothing, get to criticize me for "not paying my fair share". In that regard it probably is just semantics, but if you're paying zero and I'm paying more than zero, how do you get to criticize? I think Mr. Obama should have made everyone pay something even if it means "$100" as a token below a certain income level. While it may not cure the debt problem we have, the "token" amount will make people like me more willing to pay a disproportionate amount of taxes.

Taxes aren't even the problem - it's a spending problem. Even if we all pay what we're supposed to pay - it's less than a ladle-full of water in a bucket. We need to reduce spending in order to close the gap.


Who are the people who "pay nothing", I'm curious. (Hint: payroll and sales taxes are "tax")

Oh, and it's not a spending problem, either. It's a "two decade-long wars" problem, and an "exploding cost of health care" problem. Return the tax rates to the Clinton boom years, and implement the ACA (or any other system that gets us spending an per capita amount health care that's on par with every other western democracy) and we're fine out to the horizon...


We're talking about income tax.
jsteele
Post 04/01/2013 18:00     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?


The only way that you can be middle class and paying 12% income tax is by having significant deductions. If you do the same kind of math for the rich, they are not paying 39% either.

Also, for the "they aren't paying anything" crowd, the poor are paying payroll taxes which are a higher proportion of their income than it is for high earners. A lot of us didn't notice when the payroll tax holiday ended. You can believe the working poor noticed.

Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 18:00     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?


I'm in that bracket...and a Republican. However you may be surprised by my answer:

You're not missing anything. Instead of using "unfair" I'll just say that is is not proportionate.

I don't mind paying more taxes - I can afford to do it, and we ought to do it b/c the country needs help.

However - what I bristle at is that people who pay nothing, get to criticize me for "not paying my fair share". In that regard it probably is just semantics, but if you're paying zero and I'm paying more than zero, how do you get to criticize? I think Mr. Obama should have made everyone pay something even if it means "$100" as a token below a certain income level. While it may not cure the debt problem we have, the "token" amount will make people like me more willing to pay a disproportionate amount of taxes.

Taxes aren't even the problem - it's a spending problem. Even if we all pay what we're supposed to pay - it's less than a ladle-full of water in a bucket. We need to reduce spending in order to close the gap.


Actually, lot of lower-income working people get hundreds of dollars back from the IRS in EIC, so this would be a major philosophical shift, not a "token." A lot of people making 20k or less a year probably look forward to that as a major financial support. Many of the people paying "nothing" are also senior citizens who have paid into the system their whole lives.


Hey! Remember when Republicans used to support the EITC as a way of getting working families out of poverty? Fun times, eh!
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 17:59     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?


I'm in that bracket...and a Republican. However you may be surprised by my answer:

You're not missing anything. Instead of using "unfair" I'll just say that is is not proportionate.

I don't mind paying more taxes - I can afford to do it, and we ought to do it b/c the country needs help.

However - what I bristle at is that people who pay nothing, get to criticize me for "not paying my fair share". In that regard it probably is just semantics, but if you're paying zero and I'm paying more than zero, how do you get to criticize? I think Mr. Obama should have made everyone pay something even if it means "$100" as a token below a certain income level. While it may not cure the debt problem we have, the "token" amount will make people like me more willing to pay a disproportionate amount of taxes.

Taxes aren't even the problem - it's a spending problem. Even if we all pay what we're supposed to pay - it's less than a ladle-full of water in a bucket. We need to reduce spending in order to close the gap.


Just so long as we are clear about something: It was Republican tax policy (specifically Mr. Bush's) that took tens of millions of lower income people off the rolls. At the time, that was looked upon as virtuous.




I'm not trying to blame anyone for the situation we're in.

I'm objecting to being blamed by those that don't pay anything at all...and also pointing out that you could raise the tax rate to 50% on the rich - and it still won't make a difference.

As for the 10s of millions of lower income people - so what? You don't have to pay taxes. No problem. It doesn't give you a right to criticize the rich who ARE paying imo. If you feel strongly about it - send in $1 to the IRS as a donation. They'll take it. Otherwise I think that those that don't pay anything ought not criticize any of those who do.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 17:59     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?


I'm in that bracket...and a Republican. However you may be surprised by my answer:

You're not missing anything. Instead of using "unfair" I'll just say that is is not proportionate.

I don't mind paying more taxes - I can afford to do it, and we ought to do it b/c the country needs help.

However - what I bristle at is that people who pay nothing, get to criticize me for "not paying my fair share". In that regard it probably is just semantics, but if you're paying zero and I'm paying more than zero, how do you get to criticize? I think Mr. Obama should have made everyone pay something even if it means "$100" as a token below a certain income level. While it may not cure the debt problem we have, the "token" amount will make people like me more willing to pay a disproportionate amount of taxes.

Taxes aren't even the problem - it's a spending problem. Even if we all pay what we're supposed to pay - it's less than a ladle-full of water in a bucket. We need to reduce spending in order to close the gap.


Who are the people who "pay nothing", I'm curious. (Hint: payroll and sales taxes are "tax")

Oh, and it's not a spending problem, either. It's a "two decade-long wars" problem, and an "exploding cost of health care" problem. Return the tax rates to the Clinton boom years, and implement the ACA (or any other system that gets us spending an per capita amount health care that's on par with every other western democracy) and we're fine out to the horizon...
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 17:59     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?


I'm in that bracket...and a Republican. However you may be surprised by my answer:

You're not missing anything. Instead of using "unfair" I'll just say that is is not proportionate.

I don't mind paying more taxes - I can afford to do it, and we ought to do it b/c the country needs help.

However - what I bristle at is that people who pay nothing, get to criticize me for "not paying my fair share". In that regard it probably is just semantics, but if you're paying zero and I'm paying more than zero, how do you get to criticize? I think Mr. Obama should have made everyone pay something even if it means "$100" as a token below a certain income level. While it may not cure the debt problem we have, the "token" amount will make people like me more willing to pay a disproportionate amount of taxes.

Taxes aren't even the problem - it's a spending problem. Even if we all pay what we're supposed to pay - it's less than a ladle-full of water in a bucket. We need to reduce spending in order to close the gap.


Actually, lot of lower-income working people get hundreds of dollars back from the IRS in EIC, so this would be a major philosophical shift, not a "token." A lot of people making 20k or less a year probably look forward to that as a major financial support. Many of the people paying "nothing" are also senior citizens who have paid into the system their whole lives.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 17:56     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
I am in that bracket and I am cool with it. I figure at least 39% of our success is attributed to luck, so it doesn't really bother me.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 17:54     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?


I'm in that bracket...and a Republican. However you may be surprised by my answer:

You're not missing anything. Instead of using "unfair" I'll just say that is is not proportionate.

I don't mind paying more taxes - I can afford to do it, and we ought to do it b/c the country needs help.

However - what I bristle at is that people who pay nothing, get to criticize me for "not paying my fair share". In that regard it probably is just semantics, but if you're paying zero and I'm paying more than zero, how do you get to criticize? I think Mr. Obama should have made everyone pay something even if it means "$100" as a token below a certain income level. While it may not cure the debt problem we have, the "token" amount will make people like me more willing to pay a disproportionate amount of taxes.

Taxes aren't even the problem - it's a spending problem. Even if we all pay what we're supposed to pay - it's less than a ladle-full of water in a bucket. We need to reduce spending in order to close the gap.


Just so long as we are clear about something: It was Republican tax policy (specifically Mr. Bush's) that took tens of millions of lower income people off the rolls. At the time, that was looked upon as virtuous.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 17:53     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?


I'm in that bracket...and a Republican. However you may be surprised by my answer:

You're not missing anything. Instead of using "unfair" I'll just say that is is not proportionate.

I don't mind paying more taxes - I can afford to do it, and we ought to do it b/c the country needs help.

However - what I bristle at is that people who pay nothing, get to criticize me for "not paying my fair share". In that regard it probably is just semantics, but if you're paying zero and I'm paying more than zero, how do you get to criticize? I think Mr. Obama should have made everyone pay something even if it means "$100" as a token below a certain income level. While it may not cure the debt problem we have, the "token" amount will make people like me more willing to pay a disproportionate amount of taxes.

Taxes aren't even the problem - it's a spending problem. Even if we all pay what we're supposed to pay - it's less than a ladle-full of water in a bucket. We need to reduce spending in order to close the gap.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 17:52     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
I only care about total tax rate. You conservatives are always arranging chairs on the Titantic. Nice tree, but see the forest some time.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 17:49     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?


You're missing a lot. Chiefly:

1) It's a marginal rate. The first $450,000 or so gross (assuming normal deductions) is taxed at lower rates.

2) The capital gains tax for high-earners is lower, about 24%. Really high-income people have a lot of capital gains.

3) High-income people have been tax at historically low rates for the last 12 years.

4) We have astronomical deficits and a national debt that is becoming more difficult to manage. Part of resolving that is to ask people who have the capacity to pay more to do so, especially those who have been undertaxed in relative terms for the last 12 years.

5) That said, the middle class probably could kick in a bit more too.

As a self-professed Democrat, I'm confident you'll acknowledge 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 and never ask such a boneheaded question again.

That is all.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 17:46     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?


You are missing that it's a marginal tax bracket. Meaning they are only paying 39% for the money they make above $450K filing jointly. So they pay the same as you on the first 17K, then 72K etc. on up to 450K.

Personally I have no problem asking people to pay 40% tax on the money they earn AFTER the first 450K.... I think they will manage just fine.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 17:43     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
Anonymous wrote:I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?


The rich benefit disproportionately from government services and infrastructure. Therefore, they should pay disproportionately.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 17:40     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
Yes, it's fair.
It's much lower than it was decades ago.
Anonymous
Post 04/01/2013 17:39     Subject: Is 39% tax rate for wealthy really fair?
I am a democrat, but I'm not sure I understand the justification of the wealthy paying such a high tax rate. Can someone explain this to me? We are middle class and pay about 12%. It seems like 39% is quite high, even for the wealthy. This seems like more than their fair share. What am I missing?