Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 12:25     Subject: Re:Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
Anonymous wrote:
I'm not naive enough to think centers will go away anytime soon, but I just wonder if the benefits to the few outweigh the drawbacks.


This is the "Local Level IV at every elementary school and a new Level V AAP Center for the top 6% of students" argument.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 12:18     Subject: Re:Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What's the point of the question? With all the digs at AAP on this site, I tend to suspect that this is an attempt to stir the pot and set up yet another "let's bash AAP and those pushy parents" discussion.

Why would it really matter whether a child learns differently or is just ahead of the general education classroom? Wouldn't a child who learned differently possibly be ahead of the general ed curriculum? Wouldn't a child who was ahead also be likely to be one who learns differently? Why try to make the distinction you're setting up here? If a kid qualifies for AAP according to the rules in place, why get into the distinctions you're bringing up?


Because, AAP is supposed to be targeted to kids who can't be taught in the regular classroom. There are plenty of kids who are just ahead of a general education classroom in general ed right now. Why does a similarly advanced kid need to go to an AAP center to find peers?


"AAP is supposed to be targeted at kids who CAN'T be taught in the regular classroom"? Not even sure what you mean. Of course they CAN be taught there. But they won't work at their full potential. Many kids whom you describe (dismissively) as "just" ahead of their general ed peers also are not served well by general ed.

In general education, teachers just cannot often differentiate effectively enough that kids who are advanced AND kids who need help are all served well. I know from experience that we're told that teachers will differentiate and therefore can challenge the kids who are up for challenges so every child is met at his or her own level. But the truth is that much of the time, with anywhere from 25 to 32 kids in classrooms in schools around us, teachers tend to give the advanced kids more work and harder work and then....leave them to it. The teacher's own attention goes to the kids who need more help, and the teacher is expected by the school to do that because the school wants to see its overall testing scores improve. There's nothing wrong with expecting more independence from the advanced kids and nothing wrong with giving more help where it's needed, of course. But differentiation can't fully provide much real challenge to kids who are advanced (or AAP material or whatever you want to call it.)

You ask "why does a similarly advanced kid need to go to an AAP center to find peers?" Because in a center, the level of all the teaching for every child is different and overall the kids tend to be motivated and interested in what they're doing (sure, some are not, but I've observed that most kids in our center like school and want to be there and engage in the work well).

And again -- how do you know whether a kid "learns differently" or is "just advanced"? I don't. Why treat the kids who are "just" ahead of the general classroom as if they should merely accept whatever challenges the general ed classroom can provide them --which isn't much?

Do you know a child whom you suspect is "just ahead" who ended up in AAP, and you think he or she shouldn't be in AAP?


You are the one who quoted "rules in place" and the centers were originially set up to serve gifted kids who learned so differently that they could not get an appropriate education otherwise. I would have preferred to see FCPS stick to the original mission as opposed to watering down AAP entry to pull too many kids out of their neighborhood schools who could be served there just as well and maybe learn a few things about life from their less intellectual peers. I also think, as a previous poster has noted, that it creates a parallell public school system that rightly or wrongly many people perceive as offering a better education. So you have parents prepping, and pushing and appealing and acting like their kids lives are over at 8 if they don't get into an center, which is ridiculous and unhealthy. There are also issues of equity involved -- wouldn't we all appreciate an education tailored to our specific needs, but with a tight budget you have to make choices. At the margin there are plenty of kids who could benefit from AAP who aren't at centers, why not create a critical mass at base schools and serve them there without pulling communities apart?

I'm no expert on gifted, but daughter went to an AAP center and often wondered why some of her classmates were there since they often struggled to understand certain concepts that most of the class got quickly. Maybe there were just going through a mean girl phase. I also know a couple of other AAP kids personally and even their parents say, bright kids, but probably would have done just as well outside of AAP.

I'm not naive enough to think centers will go away anytime soon, but I just wonder if the benefits to the few outweigh the drawbacks.

Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 11:35     Subject: Re:Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What's the point of the question? With all the digs at AAP on this site, I tend to suspect that this is an attempt to stir the pot and set up yet another "let's bash AAP and those pushy parents" discussion.

Why would it really matter whether a child learns differently or is just ahead of the general education classroom? Wouldn't a child who learned differently possibly be ahead of the general ed curriculum? Wouldn't a child who was ahead also be likely to be one who learns differently? Why try to make the distinction you're setting up here? If a kid qualifies for AAP according to the rules in place, why get into the distinctions you're bringing up?


Because, AAP is supposed to be targeted to kids who can't be taught in the regular classroom. There are plenty of kids who are just ahead of a general education classroom in general ed right now. Why does a similarly advanced kid need to go to an AAP center to find peers?


"AAP is supposed to be targeted at kids who CAN'T be taught in the regular classroom"? Not even sure what you mean. Of course they CAN be taught there. But they won't work at their full potential. Many kids whom you describe (dismissively) as "just" ahead of their general ed peers also are not served well by general ed.

In general education, teachers just cannot often differentiate effectively enough that kids who are advanced AND kids who need help are all served well. I know from experience that we're told that teachers will differentiate and therefore can challenge the kids who are up for challenges so every child is met at his or her own level. But the truth is that much of the time, with anywhere from 25 to 32 kids in classrooms in schools around us, teachers tend to give the advanced kids more work and harder work and then....leave them to it. The teacher's own attention goes to the kids who need more help, and the teacher is expected by the school to do that because the school wants to see its overall testing scores improve. There's nothing wrong with expecting more independence from the advanced kids and nothing wrong with giving more help where it's needed, of course. But differentiation can't fully provide much real challenge to kids who are advanced (or AAP material or whatever you want to call it.)

You ask "why does a similarly advanced kid need to go to an AAP center to find peers?" Because in a center, the level of all the teaching for every child is different and overall the kids tend to be motivated and interested in what they're doing (sure, some are not, but I've observed that most kids in our center like school and want to be there and engage in the work well).

And again -- how do you know whether a kid "learns differently" or is "just advanced"? I don't. Why treat the kids who are "just" ahead of the general classroom as if they should merely accept whatever challenges the general ed classroom can provide them --which isn't much?

Do you know a child whom you suspect is "just ahead" who ended up in AAP, and you think he or she shouldn't be in AAP?
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 11:31     Subject: Re:Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
I only know my child is challenged, excited, and happy being in AAP. His mind is obviously being stimulated just based on the topics he brings up when we're talking to him. Being around other bright students is obviously helping too.

And he finds PLENTY of time just to have fun.

So, as you can probably tell, I am of the opinion AAP is a very good thing!
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 11:08     Subject: Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
The truth is FCPS could require differentiation and regroup in base schools. The middle schools are large and all AAP should be at the base schools.

A parallel school system like the parochial schools in many areas but on public money.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 11:04     Subject: Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
MY DC is exceptional. Does DC learn in a differnet way - from whom? There are many learning styles; of course DC and every kid learns differently. Is DC above grade level? Yes, in every subject. Is DC happy in AAP? Yes, but DC would be happy anywhere; DC loves school. Loves to learn. Only thing DC doesn't like is the bad behavior and stealing that happens in the classroom. Yes, even at a nice school in FCPS there are young thieves.
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 09:43     Subject: Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think my DC is advanced beyond the regular classroom. She does ask thoughtful questions and is very observant. But I don't know if she learns differently then other kids, not even sure what that really means.


EXACTLY...I'm trying to come to terms with a high NNAT (we have) and why that puts us in the pool when my child's high marks in school and that she's being taught above grade level in reading math don't have a "pool" placement. So we're in the pool - good - but it would seem that kids in AAP don't really learn differently, but they are ready for an advanced paced educational setting. Shouldn't it be that if kids are doing well and grasping easily the material being taught, that should be the basis for the pool? (Again, we are in the pool, but I'm just trying to figure out what that makes more sense then basing pool determination on a few tests.)


A bit off the main topic... I am assuming that your DC is in second grade b/c in pool now. Question, what is your DC doing in terms of above grade level math?
Anonymous
Post 02/28/2013 08:55     Subject: Re:Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
My child is struggling in a regular classroom setting right now in 1st grade. I believe it's because she learns differently and is advanced beyond the current curriculum. An example is when learning to read. Many educators I know mentioned that kids start memorizing books before they can actually read. My child never did this and at 3 (almost 4) was sounding out words in BOB/easy reader books. Within 2 weeks, the week she turned 4 had memorized a stack of sight word cards and started reading BOB/easy readers in a choppy way - words clear but not fluent into sentences. Within another 2 weeks she was reading with more fluency and could tell me about the story when she finished. She did not learn to read the traditional way and since then has been reading books beyond her grade level.

On the other hand, I have a younger child who at 4 is still sounding out letters and barely putting letter sounds together. Not necessarily behind, average for his age, but has memorized some books and thinks he is reading, but I know anything new is completely foreign to him.

This is just an example of how I think our oldest learns differently and it's become a struggle in school. She does not want to complete any of her classroom work, but when challenged or interested in the material she goes to the extreme with an assignment. She likes to learn more about each subject and they touch more surface level on each subject that she either already knows the material or she doesn't want to stop working on the material and digging deeper - which the teacher, understandably, doesn' t have time to do. This is not boding well for her in 1st grade, but her recent NNAT score puts her in pool for AAP.

I think she would do well by a program focused on kids like her, but I don't think our youngest would.
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2013 19:04     Subject: Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
I would say my child learns differently but is not necessarily advanced, despite high scores. DC is "right brained" and thinks in a non-linear way (more of an inductive thinker). The center has been great because they seem to account for different ways of thinking and learning better than the base school did. DC is very smart and you can tell in conversation, games, etc., but it hasn't really played out academically.
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2013 19:02     Subject: Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
Anonymous wrote:If you have a child in AAP do you REALLY think your child learns differently or is just advanced beyond the regular classroom?


I REALLY think my children learn differently AND are advanced beyond the regular classroom.
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2013 18:50     Subject: Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
Anonymous wrote:I think my DC is advanced beyond the regular classroom. She does ask thoughtful questions and is very observant. But I don't know if she learns differently then other kids, not even sure what that really means.


EXACTLY...I'm trying to come to terms with a high NNAT (we have) and why that puts us in the pool when my child's high marks in school and that she's being taught above grade level in reading math don't have a "pool" placement. So we're in the pool - good - but it would seem that kids in AAP don't really learn differently, but they are ready for an advanced paced educational setting. Shouldn't it be that if kids are doing well and grasping easily the material being taught, that should be the basis for the pool? (Again, we are in the pool, but I'm just trying to figure out what that makes more sense then basing pool determination on a few tests.)
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2013 18:04     Subject: Re:Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
Anonymous wrote:What's the point of the question? With all the digs at AAP on this site, I tend to suspect that this is an attempt to stir the pot and set up yet another "let's bash AAP and those pushy parents" discussion.

Why would it really matter whether a child learns differently or is just ahead of the general education classroom? Wouldn't a child who learned differently possibly be ahead of the general ed curriculum? Wouldn't a child who was ahead also be likely to be one who learns differently? Why try to make the distinction you're setting up here? If a kid qualifies for AAP according to the rules in place, why get into the distinctions you're bringing up?


Because, AAP is supposed to be targeted to kids who can't be taught in the regular classroom. There are plenty of kids who are just ahead of a general education classroom in general ed right now. Why does a similarly advanced kid need to go to an AAP center to find peers?
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2013 15:16     Subject: Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
I think my DC is advanced beyond the regular classroom. She does ask thoughtful questions and is very observant. But I don't know if she learns differently then other kids, not even sure what that really means.
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2013 15:05     Subject: Re:Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
What's the point of the question? With all the digs at AAP on this site, I tend to suspect that this is an attempt to stir the pot and set up yet another "let's bash AAP and those pushy parents" discussion.

Why would it really matter whether a child learns differently or is just ahead of the general education classroom? Wouldn't a child who learned differently possibly be ahead of the general ed curriculum? Wouldn't a child who was ahead also be likely to be one who learns differently? Why try to make the distinction you're setting up here? If a kid qualifies for AAP according to the rules in place, why get into the distinctions you're bringing up?
Anonymous
Post 02/27/2013 15:00     Subject: Come on, tell the truth...AAP related
If you have a child in AAP do you REALLY think your child learns differently or is just advanced beyond the regular classroom?