Maybe it's because I have four kids and I have a little more life experience than many of the posters in this forum (who tend to have one or two very little ones), but I honestly couldn't care less about my friends' parenting styles. As long as they don't yell obscenities or beat their kids, it really doesn't bother me how strict or lax they are. I'm only responsible for my kids. Period. And I strive not to pass judgment on my friends (even the ones who are super strict/crazy/judgmental and those who are super lax). I'm sure some of our friends think we are too laid back. We don't see it that way. We have older kids, so we now realize that we don't have to shadow our toddler's every move. We have older kids, so we recognize that we don't have to intervene in every situation. In fact, we prefer that our kids try to resolve situations on their own. We are the anti-helicopter parents.

If you want to keep up the friendship sans children, just tell her that you are making a concerted effort to get out more often for adult time. If she's not up for it, then just let it die a natural death.

There's a parent just like this at our preschool and I have come to just avoid her and her son and hope that our kids aren't in the same class next year. And yes, it's all the three year old behaviors that you really need to stay on top of where you really see which parents are giving up on even trying. In your case I wouldn't be able to enjoy her company because of the aggravation of her kid and I'd just phase it out.

Anonymous wrote:I had a similar experience with a friend, who has now moved away. We practically raised our DCs together from a very young age and became very close. As we entered the toddler years, she was clearly exhausted and uninterested in the energy and effort of consistent discipline of an admittedly very active and somewhat aggressive child. Because of the nature of our relationship, I felt comfortable disinclining her child for her when her child was near my child and in my presence. She even appreciated it, and thanked me. I suppose we also had similar parenting philosophies (she just didn't practice them consistently). In my case, it was worth the extra work of watching two kids so I could hang out with a friend who was unfortunately overwhelmed by her high energy child. I imagine it takes a certain level of intimacy for an arrangement like that to work. Best of luck to you with whichever course you peruse!

Arg -- "pursue"

I had a similar experience with a friend, who has now moved away. We practically raised our DCs together from a very young age and became very close. As we entered the toddler years, she was clearly exhausted and uninterested in the energy and effort of consistent discipline of an admittedly very active and somewhat aggressive child. Because of the nature of our relationship, I felt comfortable disinclining her child for her when her child was near my child and in my presence. She even appreciated it, and thanked me. I suppose we also had similar parenting philosophies (she just didn't practice them consistently). In my case, it was worth the extra work of watching two kids so I could hang out with a friend who was unfortunately overwhelmed by her high energy child. I imagine it takes a certain level of intimacy for an arrangement like that to work. Best of luck to you with whichever course you peruse!

OP, I think it will be hard to keep this friendship.

If you want to try, I think you need to introduce Amy and her daughter to the concept of "House Rules". That means, her daughter can't play with your fridge door because that's your house rule. Even if she does it at school, or whatever. It's OK that her daughter is confused, but you need Amy to support you in your house rules.

It would also help to not have play dates in your homes, but to get the kids together in a neutral space, preferably one without a lot of toys, but more like a gymnastics place. Your daughter will have to learn that not all kids share toys as she is being told to, and that will stink, but that is her lesson to learn. "We do it this way. Other people have different ways, but we stick with our way."

You can head off some of this over time -- when the kids play together you may need to educate both Amy and her child. "Now, Samantha really likes playing with her pail, so she doesn't want to share it with anyone, unless she is sure she'll get it back. So Amy, this pail is for you, and this pail is for Samantha." And don't let Amy take Samantha's pail, unless she is willing to "practice" sharing (because Samantha is so fond of this pail.) You can't do this for everything, but it could be a start.

If Amy gets in a huff because of this, well, at least you tried.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Omg PP, that is crazy advice!

Crazy how?

Human Nature 101

You can not tell your friend that she needs to dump her loser boyfriend and expect her to follow your advice. You may be right, be she will resent it. She will have to reach this decision on her own. You can stick it out, being her shoulder to cry on when loser boyfriend does something horrible, or you can end the friendship because you can't stand being around someone engaging in self destructive behavior.

Fast forward 10 years...
You can not tell a mother that she needs to improve her parenting. See above for her reaction and your two courses of action.

OP, at three years old, kids can start getting the concept of "different rules for different houses" so you can explain that we don't play with the refrigerator door at our house.
Honestly though, I find it really difficult to stay friends with someone who has a radically different style of parenting from me, unless I only socialize with them when the kids aren't around.
Don't sweat it. People grow into and out of friendships. Don't need to make some formal declaration. Just let it slowly drift away.

I had a friend like that, OP, and interestingly it was the issues with her also-3-yr-old that ultimately torpedoed the relationship. We have boys who are older (9) who first brought us together, but the 100% undisciplined 3 yr old had to go with us at. all. times.

If she ever were to leave him behind with Dad, I think we'd still be friends actually.

But her utter abdication of overseeing this kid made me lose respect for her, frankly.

And nope, I'm not perfect myself and if you want to stop being friends with me because one of my imperfections drives you to gouge out your eyes, that's fair. x-friend's particular imperfection was my trigger button and a dealbreaker.

Anonymous wrote:There's no way to save the friendship. I'm sorry OP. It stinks.

+1

It doesn't sound like the friend things there is a problem so I doubt she would see a need for change! You probably have to move on Op.

You can't criticize a parent's parenting style...it's simply rude. And to suggest confronting a friend to openly criticize her and then be armed with books, websites, and suggest parenting classes is batshit crazy!

Anonymous wrote:Omg PP, that is crazy advice!

Crazy how?

Omg PP, that is crazy advice!

If you feel like you will lose the friendship if nothing changes then be honest with her. What do you have to lose? It might even salvage something. Be prepared with some books to lend on the spot and some websites or offer to take a parenting class together. Make sure to say something like "I had such a hard time with this at first too but now it has really fallen into place and is going smoothly." It will help to show empathy and relate to her where she is. If it doesn't work out you will at least know you did what you could. BTDT.

There's no way to save the friendship. I'm sorry OP. It stinks.

So sorry this is so long, please bear with me...

I'm a SAHM with a 3-year-old DD. I have met a bunch of nice mom friends through moms' groups and preschool, including one woman, "Amy," that i particularly click with. Amy's DD is similar in age to mine and when we first met, the kids seemed to play well together, so we started hanging out regularly. As the kids have gotten older, it has become clear that Amy and I do not share the same parenting style, and it is becoming a problem. I am FAR from what you would call strict, but Amy is so permissive that it becomes disrespectful to my DD and me.

For example -- we will be at my house and my DD will start doing something I don't allow--say, playing with the refrigerator door--so I tell my DD to stop doing it, and Amy fully hears me say it. Two minutes later, Amy's DD will start doing the EXACT same thing, and Amy stands right there and does not say a word. This happens 10 times every time they come over. At this point I honestly think Amy's DD specifically does things just because she heard me tell my DD not to do it. (She is a smart kid, and overall a nice kid but I can see her learning these behaviors over time.) A few times I have tried to gently correct Amy's DD myself, and Amy will either correct her DD once but then allow her to resume the behavior a minute later, or make some excuse, like "She's allowed to do it at school so it's hard for her to understand she can't do it here," or "She was playing with the fridge because she wanted a snack."

Also, when I see my DD take something out of another child's hand, I will immediately force her to give it back to the other child and wait her turn. When Amy's DD grabs something from my DD -- which is constantly -- Amy will plead and cajole her DD to give it back, but if her DD chooses not to give it up, she keeps it. I always try to redirect my DD, but at some point I start to feel bad not sticking up for her. One time this happened while Amy was out of the room, and I took the thing out of Amy's DD's hand, exactly as I would do for my DD, and Amy's DD started screaming and took another toy and threw it hard at my DD's head. It missed, fortunately. Amy came in as her DD was throwing the car and she said something along the lines of, sweetie, that's not nice. And that was it. If my kid had done that she would be in time-out or the playdate would end.

We've had many playdates with other friends and never encountered anyone like this, and frankly I have heard mutual friends comment on the situation with Amy and her DD, so I know it's not just me. I am sad to lose the friendship with Amy but at this point it has become unpleasant to spend time with our kids together, for both my DD and me. (Occasionally Amy and I see each other without kids but realistically that's rare.) It's obviously not my place to say something about Amy's parenting, and I know it wouldn't do anything but cause hard feelings. I've started to pull back a bit from Amy, be less available for plans, etc., but I think she is starting to notice. I think if I pull back any further, Amy is going to point blank ask me what is going on. What do I say? There's no way to save this friendship, is there??