OP here, sorry forgot to address 16:09's comments, which were most helpful, as they probably hit closer to home (I wrote my first post in a fit of anger, feel more balanced about things today). It definitely is a learned and maybe genetic way of dealing with frustration. He was raised with a badgering, critical father (the man would attack DH in particular, ridicule him, berate him, etc), and he and his brother both have hot tempers and are easily confrontational. His mother is like me--cool and non-confrontational, but her reaction was to withdraw from the conflict, which caused his father to bait more. I think it also made DH mad, when he was a kid, that his mother didn't intervene more, which is maybe also why he gets more conflictual with me the more I refuse to engage.

I would really like PEP and some other anger and communication work, for both of us.

OP here, no sign of cluster B disorder or any mental disorder except surely only partly treated ADD. He is classic ADD and I have learned that ADD types tend to "flare" more easily. He started meds which help him focus at work a bit, but he has not learned to deal with his anxiety. things always seem "out of control" to him, with 2 little kids and his own problems organizing/finding stuff and as a result he barks orders or just freaks and gets really irritated. I would say that he's like this 20 percent of the time, and then 80 percent of the time he's normal, loving, solicitous, etc. But when he's stressed, usually about work but also family, etc, he becomes nitpicking, critical, argumentative and badgering. I hate fighting and shut down, which makes him badger even more because, I realize, at some level he just wants to provoke some sort of reaction.

with the kids, he's very patient and loving with the baby, who is chill, but can be abrupt and bossy with the toddler, who gives it back in spades. the PEP classes are a good idea, but he will say he's too busy/stressed to go and that our ives are already "too chaotic" to add another obligation (same with my desire that he actually see an ADD coach t help him with organization, rather than just take some drugs; same with my anger that he won't look into dealing with snoring, so we can sleep in the same room). In fact, a big factor in his behavior is having young kids--he has a hard time dealing with chaos, and basically can't handle more than a single thing at a time, so when there's a lot going on, he yells or bosses everyone around to get some sort of handle on things. of course, it only devolves into more chaos, but he can't really see that.

when he is not like this he is: selfless, generous with affection, loyal, funny, and adores the kids. but the times he is on edge, everyone is on edge, and like I said the other night, I've just had it.

Anonymous wrote:Defective. Return to sender. Now.

With a video of his shit. OP - You bought a lemon.

I am ashamed to admit that I was like your DH. This was learned behavior from my mother. I was a good mom and very loving, but learned to express my frustration in a certain way and came to believe that the other person couldn't hear me unless I showed my frustration.

What happened? Well, I started to notice how it was affecting my kids when they were about 4 or 5, and I didn't like what I saw.

I went to PEP classes in Kensington and learned better ways to parent my children. So, instead of yelling at them, I learned to set natural consequences. I essentially learned more child discipline tools than the ones I had.

I also did a PEP anger management class and a class on child motivation. The first helped me control my own emotions, the second helped me see that the confrontational approach I had with my kids (and DH) wasn't really motivating anyone.

I am much better about keeping my responses calm and cool. Sometimes I slip, but things don't go as far. The atmosphere in our house is better.

Irritability can also be a part of mental illness or personality disorder as other PPs mention, but in my case, the way I was acting was the way I was taught to act. It can be hard to break those intergenerational parenting patterns.

What is your DH's family like? How was he raised and disciplined?

I agree that over the long haul, if there is no change it is very difficult to live with such hostility. My mother has never changed. I can see it is difficult for my Dad. I also don't like when my kids see it in her.

I also wonder how you were raised/disciplined. One of the problems in our relationship is that my DH was raised by parents who almost never set boundaries for their children. So when DH and I got together both of us were "wrong" in a sense -- he too lax and me too strict. I think this is a common dynamic in families. He was so lax, it made me feel like if I was less strict our family would be in chaos. Do you think your way of parenting is effective? Or do you think that your DH sees you as giving too much power/decisionmaking to the child?

11:31, I am the male version of you. It is never too late. I fully expect that someday my life will change for the better and so will yours. OP, sorry to hijack.

OMG I could have written that exact post, including the effect of DH's anger on our son. I really want to share with you our experience so maybe it will help you decide what's right in your case. My husband is knee-jerk confrontational, self-righteous and goes on the offense as a defense against perceived disrespect (which usually does not exist.) He loses his temper at things small and large, but in between that he is also a loving father and relatively enjoyable to be around.

It came to a head eight years ago, we had a marital 'crisis'. We both started counseling individually, and couples counseling with another therapist. We kept at it for six long years, with DH not getting better and blaming me (I have ADHD) for "annoying him on purpose", such as having weeds removed that he thought might have been flowers, rearranging the furniture without his permission, letting my son negotiate with me about chores/homework, leaving the car unlocked, buying a 'cheap-shit' cabinet for bathroom hand towels, changing the locks when I lost my keys, not taking the car in when the check-engine light came on, cluttering the kitchen counter with containers he never approved of, and so on ad infinitum. And of course, he resented my lack of real interest in sex even though I participated every week and tried to enjoy it.
I stayed in counseling and in the marriage for my son's sake only. I was quite miserable, but I got a job that I liked, went on medication for anxiety and ADD, started running, and finally made the decision to leave. Because he is so volatile, I brought it out gradually, bit by bit: first I refused to go to counseling anymore, then I said I wanted a separate bank account, then I prepared a budget to show we were living beyond our means, then I said I wanted to sell my share of our joint property, gradually I got to the point of saying I couldn't live with the anger anymore and want to discuss options. The gradual approach was a good idea because eventually the next step became inevitable and my son did not have to witness a huge blowup, just the regular level of fighting. However, it meant that he did not think I was serious, instead he thought that a few tweaks would fix it. I told him it's over but allowed him to set the timeline within reason. He started behaving a bit better and just went into denial. Eventually I said, now is the time. He asked me to give him more time. Meanwhile I'm no longer the attractive younger person I was when this all started and though I'm not afraid to be alone, the reality of being alone grows with every deepening wrinkle and sag.

I'm in my mid-50s and am still hanging on because he is finally trying to modulate himself, and my son, now in middle school, has a lot of anxiety and I don't want to add to it.

The bottom line here is, I should have 'pulled the band-aid off' when my son was a toddler. I feel like I lost the chance to have a life I loved with someone new.

Anonymous wrote:Leave. It doesn't get any better.

+1000

Leave. It doesn't get any better.

Someone who acts like this is not a great husband and father.

Get some help, OP.

OP. Please read about Cluster B Personality Disorders. See if you think the "shoe fits." then you can steateguE about getting DH help, coping with him a d/or getting out.

I think you need to have a serious conversation with your DH, and preface it with I want to talk to you about us and you need to keep your emotions under control. Do you think that would work???

There has to be other things going on you say you don't sleep in the same bed?

Otherwise, it maybe time for you to strategize about what you want the future of you and your DC to be w/o him in the picture.

You are naive to say that you never saw this before kids or marriage. You say he is a great husband/father. What makes you say this?

OP here. I have thought through the impact of divorce. His confrontational side will skyrocket and we will have no chance of having a good co-parenting relationship, and meanwhile my kids will be with him 50 percent of the time, without me around to try to model better behavior.

I believe that DH wants to be a good husband and father, he is unselfish and dedicated to our family. But he has some physical and psychological/family issues. I am probably naive for thinking that they can be helped, but I guess I am wondering if they can be.

I did not see this behavior before we were married and had kids--or rather I saw glimpses, but he channelled the intensity in other ways (including being intensely romantic). Its like he has a need for chaos and intensity...

Defective. Return to sender. Now.

I realized tonight in the car that I have had it. DH is just an extremely confrontational person, many friends/family members have commented on it, but he refuses to believe it, or says that he doesn't "feel" angry when he argues. He just argues incessantly and it is so exhausting. The nitpicking, the badgering, the raised, angry voice for every little thing, the over-reactions....saying things like 'Jesus christ what is wrong with you" when I do something stupid, but not burning down the house stupid. And its affecting our kids. My toddler son, especially, has a volatile temper and when DH starts yelling, he starts yelling and stamping around the house imitating him. The other, related, problem is that DH is incredibly impatient and maybe also anxious--but whenever my fairly stubborn son resists doing something (getting dressed, taking a bath, etc) DH just manhandles him, just scoops him up and forces him and they struggle. I keep telling my husband that we are trying to model self control and patience for our son, but we have to show it ourselves. I find my toddler hard too, but ultimately I get him to do what he needs to do through other means. I feel like when he is physically forced to do something, it also removes the decision making power from him and he doesn't learn to decide whether and how to listen and of course it teaches him that being physical is okay.

t don't know what to do. Dh doesn't see it, and if I mentioned it, he just goes on the attack. Usually I just shut down, but inside feel deflated, other times I scream back, which is so uncharacteristic. I believe he was raised like this--both his father and brother are like this. He also has pretty much untreated ADD and I think sleep apnea, but has refused to do a sleep study, even though we no longer sleep in the same bed.

he is in many other ways a good father and husband, but the reactivity is just killing me.