Anonymous
Post 01/01/2013 10:50     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Gotta say ... DD is at a high FARMS school (approximately 40%) and she has 15 kids in her 1st grade class. There's an upside to it, too. While there are kids there who need a lot more academic help, she is getting way more individual attention than her peers at predominantly white & asian and high SES schools in other areas (who have 20+ kids in their classes).


Small class sizes are great, but not at the expense of having a critical mass of students at or near the ability of your child. The real issue at elementary schools with high FARMs is that the teacher cannot differentiate the learning. Many of the FARMs kids are working at or below grade level. If your kid is only one of a few working above grade level, then it's not likely she will get instruction that will challenge her. Most of the resources are going to be put towards getting the below level students up to passing.


In FCPS, many (but not all) of the high FARMS schools have the Young Scholars program (starting in K). (There are 76 elementary schools with Young Scholars.) Depending upon how Young Scholars is implemented at the school, this critical mass of students is formed to make classroom differentiation easier for the teacher.[/quot

In which schools is this really happening? We previously attended a higher FARMs school. DC was multiple grades ahead in math, and we were offered pull out math. It consisted of one 45 minute session once a month. This is at a school with a full time AART. We moved and switched to schools with very low FARMs, and DC was identified for level III pull outs, which were told was the same as Young Scholars, and its still only once a month. However at the new school, we get differentiated math in the class. Some sections are divided amongst all the students in the grade. For other sections, DC and a group of other students gets higher level math in class.

Young Schloars was originated for services for unrepresented minorities. If one isn't a minority can a child still receive services? We qualified, and barely received any extra help. We're thankful our budget and work commute allow for us to live in a strong pyramid. Please post the name of your high FARMs schools that has regular differentiated learning.
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2013 10:26     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Gotta say ... DD is at a high FARMS school (approximately 40%) and she has 15 kids in her 1st grade class. There's an upside to it, too. While there are kids there who need a lot more academic help, she is getting way more individual attention than her peers at predominantly white & asian and high SES schools in other areas (who have 20+ kids in their classes).


Small class sizes are great, but not at the expense of having a critical mass of students at or near the ability of your child. The real issue at elementary schools with high FARMs is that the teacher cannot differentiate the learning. Many of the FARMs kids are working at or below grade level. If your kid is only one of a few working above grade level, then it's not likely she will get instruction that will challenge her. Most of the resources are going to be put towards getting the below level students up to passing.


In FCPS, many (but not all) of the high FARMS schools have the Young Scholars program (starting in K). (There are 76 elementary schools with Young Scholars.) Depending upon how Young Scholars is implemented at the school, this critical mass of students is formed to make classroom differentiation easier for the teacher.
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2013 07:41     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
Schools are a crap shoot. It really comes down to two things: the child's peers, and the quality of the teacher. That is what determines the test scores.

My rule of thumb was the best schools are probably the poorer schools with good outcomes.

With that said, when I bought my house (before kids), I only looked at the HS, the price, and my commute. I did not know that we were buying in a particularly desirable location (Louise Archer as the base school). I have been happy will the most of the teachers (exception is the current 5th grade, and the first grade). However, the peers (her friends) exhort a peer pressure to exceed; to learn. That is far more important than the lousy 5th grade teacher.
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2013 05:52     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
Anonymous wrote:Gotta say ... DD is at a high FARMS school (approximately 40%) and she has 15 kids in her 1st grade class. There's an upside to it, too. While there are kids there who need a lot more academic help, she is getting way more individual attention than her peers at predominantly white & asian and high SES schools in other areas (who have 20+ kids in their classes).


Small class sizes are great, but not at the expense of having a critical mass of students at or near the ability of your child. The real issue at elementary schools with high FARMs is that the teacher cannot differentiate the learning. Many of the FARMs kids are working at or below grade level. If your kid is only one of a few working above grade level, then it's not likely she will get instruction that will challenge her. Most of the resources are going to be put towards getting the below level students up to passing.

At the HS/MA levels, a concern is peer groups. Schools with a higher % FARMs students have a smaller percentage of students going to college, and only a very few going to elite colleges. Most parents would prefer their kids attend schools with a strong academic focus. Parents with higher SES have more time and resources to devote to their child's education. This affects the atmosphere of the school.
Anonymous
Post 01/01/2013 00:26     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
Ditto looking at test scores for your demographic. In Arlington, white kids at all the elementary schools score in the mid to upper 90s regardless of whether it is a high percentage FARMS school,or not.

Another good indicator is word of mouth. If parents like a school it is probably a good one. Look for strong community involvement, which is also possible at FARMS schools with strong administrators/leadership.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2012 20:35     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
Gotta say ... DD is at a high FARMS school (approximately 40%) and she has 15 kids in her 1st grade class. There's an upside to it, too. While there are kids there who need a lot more academic help, she is getting way more individual attention than her peers at predominantly white & asian and high SES schools in other areas (who have 20+ kids in their classes).
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2012 20:28     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
Anonymous wrote:No, not at all. I personally think you are smart parents to try to keep your commute as short as you can afford. Too much time is spent on the roads around here. Better to spend it with your children, not wiped out from a grueling commute. 18 or 23% is not that great of a difference at all. Look at the school's websites, try to find their PTA websites and read the newsletters. That will give you information along with the hard data you can find already.


I totally agree about the commute. When we bought our house, kids weren't even in the picture (actually, I bought because we were dating/not married). I wanted as much house as I could afford in a halfway decent area. The MS/HS isn't among the hightest ranked in FCPS and our kids go to a Title 1 ES school with a Spanish immersion program. Their test scores may not be the best but they have smaller classrooms and I've been impressed with the staff. But, the number one thing I like about living where I do is that it's close to my job. Didn't start out that way - I had to change jobs but the difference in quality of life is amazing! It's been 7 years since I stopped commuting downtown and I still revel in being so close. Everything seems better because of it.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2012 19:57     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
Besides looking at FARMS and overall test scores, I would encourage you to look at the test scores for your child's specific demographics. If a school is 30% FARMS, it's not a problem in my book so long as there are also a good number of kids who are scoring well (and some of them may be FARMS, but I'm looking into the racial breakdown of test scores that reflect my children). I would not have any concern about a school that is 18 or 23% FARMS. If a school is 65% -- then I would be more concerned ... but I'd visit the school and get a feel for the cultural vibe b/c sometimes even a school with really high FARMS turns out to be a gem b/c of the Title I funding. But, I'd approach it with caution and look into it myself.

Short commute + decent school = the good life!
(note I didn't say the "best" school b/c my kids and yours too would be fine at a decent school)
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2012 18:27     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Look at the detailed SOL data available on the Virginia school report cards website. Compare school to school based on your child's demographics.


So would you say most schools with white/non-farms numbers in the 90's/upper 80's are all pretty good? Even if they are 15-22% FARMS schools? Is there any noticeable quality difference between a school with 18% FARMS and 23% FARMS? For commute reasons (and we like our current area) we don't want to move to a lower FARMS area, but we are still concerned. Are we selfish parents for not wanting long commutes?


20% percent FARMS is hardly high. Science Focus is one of the most popular elementary schools in Arlington, with just about the highest test scores in the county, yet the FARMS rate hovers around 20% every year. In the DC and the suburbs, schools that may require a closer look are generally over 50% FARMS. And there are a number of schools over 50% FARMS that are popular with well-off families because of the program the school may offer, such as language immersion.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2012 18:18     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
PP again = FARMS was totally not a factor for us. I don't care how much money other parents have.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2012 18:17     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
Demographics and Test Scores. Period.

Forget what the loons on here have to say. A school has to be the right mix for you and have the right academics. The E.S. mix by our new home is about 30-W/30-H/20-A/10-B and we are happy with that because DD is going to be bilingual in Spanish. And test scores are excellent. If DD was AA, then we wouldn't be happy with this school. So, in short, demos and scores are important, and in different ways to different people.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2012 17:37     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
No, not at all. I personally think you are smart parents to try to keep your commute as short as you can afford. Too much time is spent on the roads around here. Better to spend it with your children, not wiped out from a grueling commute. 18 or 23% is not that great of a difference at all. Look at the school's websites, try to find their PTA websites and read the newsletters. That will give you information along with the hard data you can find already.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2012 15:38     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
Anonymous wrote:Look at the detailed SOL data available on the Virginia school report cards website. Compare school to school based on your child's demographics.


So would you say most schools with white/non-farms numbers in the 90's/upper 80's are all pretty good? Even if they are 15-22% FARMS schools? Is there any noticeable quality difference between a school with 18% FARMS and 23% FARMS? For commute reasons (and we like our current area) we don't want to move to a lower FARMS area, but we are still concerned. Are we selfish parents for not wanting long commutes?
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2012 15:34     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
Look at the detailed SOL data available on the Virginia school report cards website. Compare school to school based on your child's demographics.
Anonymous
Post 12/31/2012 15:26     Subject: If I'm not supposed to judge based on FARMS and test scores, what CAN I judge on?
My DD is a rising kindergartner and we're looking to buy a SFH, one that we plan to remain in through H.S. - unless something unexpected happens. I just can't find much information on schools aside from demographics and SOL scores. I've been to Great Schools and Schooldigger. Most people I know in the area have young kids so all they know are the elementary schools, which by most accounts are all pretty good so that is not the issue. What I'm concerned about is MS/HS. I know administrations can change, yada yada yada, but I still have to base my decision on something don't I? I feel like for every 1 person who likes a school, there is another who dislikes it. And many times are complaints are not even relevant to me - ie: IEP's or Gifted, which may not even apply to my kid.

I am driving myself (and my husband) nuts trying to decide which "cluster" we want to be in!