Anonymous wrote:OP, if I knew where you lived, I'd bring over a bottle of wine.

Has he ever been evaluated for Attention Deficit Disorder?

It's either ADD or he is being passive aggressive by saying he will do something (to shut you up) and then doesn't do it (because he never wanted to do it in the first place). Maybe both.

Given the amount you have vented in this thread, I seriously think you should maybe go to counseling with your husband. PP's have listed several good ideas but it seems like you are still angry. You are building up resentments that will erode your connection and intimacy with your DH over time. He is possibly already checking out. He is just becoming a yes man to shut you up but not helping with what needs to get done. You need a third party to dig in deep to get to the core of what is going on and help you both resolve things.

If he does have ADD - do research to find coping strategies for adults. Start with www.chadd.org. If he is being passive aggressive - there are strategies you can learn so you are not sucked into the madness.

My two cents.

Anonymous wrote:OP here, I've tried the division of labor thing, and he's totally on board..with the idea. But then it comes time to execute and he does't do it. And then I have to wage this internal war--do I nag or just remain silent? I will ask 2-3 times over as many weeks and finally realize that the emotional energy I am spending on his NOT doing it, plus not having working heat--is far worse than doing it myself, but then I'm angry because I'm enabling it.

He used to do more--he used to also do the lawn but decided he hated it and preferred to pay someone, which would be fine except we really can't afford it and it's not like he's taking other things on. He also used to deal with the car, but now if I want it semi-clean I have to go in there, remove all the trash, food wrappers, etc, and vacuum it. My toddler picks up more than he does. The thing is, he's not lazy, but he's just disorganized, and spends more time looking for things than getting ready in the morning, plus he's got addiction to the iPhone issues.
I agree about my having control issues--I definitely prefer to deal with finances and purchases. In part I am a take charge person. in part that's because there's a track record of DH really messing up financially because he does not pay attention at all to anything--his paycheck, taxes, lost credit cards, etc--and we've lost a lot of money because of his carelessness. Where I lose it though is the thoughtlessness about the day to day stuff he is capable of doing-- grocery shopping, cooking a meal or two, picking up after himself. I know he has different standards, but when I went on a business trip for 4 days and came home to all the mail on the floor because he didn't pick it up to put it on the hallway table that is 6 inches from the mailslot and a pile of dirty kids clothes on the floor of the bathroom when there is a hamper a few feet away.... really? what does that teach our kids about responsibility?

I never thought I'd be in this stereotypical marriage of a resentful, angry spouse but here I am. He's a good man in many ways, good with the kids, but is just so incapable in terms of cleaning, organization, time management, or realization that his behavior is thoughtless. and I know, deep down inside, that he's really not capable of significant change.

As for the nanny--I will ask her to do more (she tidies the main room daily and does kids laundry), but I like the fact that she is always keeping the kids engaged and does lots of things out of the house.....

Yeah, you have a baby and a toddler. Settle for what you can get.

1. Get the nanny to do more cleaning, maybe run some errands. Maybe pay slightly more and get a new nanny and get her to do a lot more.
2. Put a box in each room. Every piece of clutter goes into the box. That's it. Then leave it. The 50th time he fishes his crap out of the box, he'll learn. In the box and forget about it.
3. Automate everything that you can.
4. Get over the meals thing. What's wrong with giving them a grilled cheese once a week? Otherwise, cook in bulk and only once or twice a week. Don't cook every night - complete waste of time. If you are angry that he is making dinner for them, not for you - explicitly ask him to make lunch as well. If not, then raise hell.

He sounds like a dick, but you've admitted to being somewhat controlling and this is generally the outcome.

OP, if I knew where you lived, I'd bring over a bottle of wine.

Has he ever been evaluated for Attention Deficit Disorder?

OP here, I've tried the division of labor thing, and he's totally on board..with the idea. But then it comes time to execute and he does't do it. And then I have to wage this internal war--do I nag or just remain silent? I will ask 2-3 times over as many weeks and finally realize that the emotional energy I am spending on his NOT doing it, plus not having working heat--is far worse than doing it myself, but then I'm angry because I'm enabling it.

He used to do more--he used to also do the lawn but decided he hated it and preferred to pay someone, which would be fine except we really can't afford it and it's not like he's taking other things on. He also used to deal with the car, but now if I want it semi-clean I have to go in there, remove all the trash, food wrappers, etc, and vacuum it. My toddler picks up more than he does. The thing is, he's not lazy, but he's just disorganized, and spends more time looking for things than getting ready in the morning, plus he's got addiction to the iPhone issues.
I agree about my having control issues--I definitely prefer to deal with finances and purchases. In part I am a take charge person. in part that's because there's a track record of DH really messing up financially because he does not pay attention at all to anything--his paycheck, taxes, lost credit cards, etc--and we've lost a lot of money because of his carelessness. Where I lose it though is the thoughtlessness about the day to day stuff he is capable of doing-- grocery shopping, cooking a meal or two, picking up after himself. I know he has different standards, but when I went on a business trip for 4 days and came home to all the mail on the floor because he didn't pick it up to put it on the hallway table that is 6 inches from the mailslot and a pile of dirty kids clothes on the floor of the bathroom when there is a hamper a few feet away.... really? what does that teach our kids about responsibility?

I never thought I'd be in this stereotypical marriage of a resentful, angry spouse but here I am. He's a good man in many ways, good with the kids, but is just so incapable in terms of cleaning, organization, time management, or realization that his behavior is thoughtless. and I know, deep down inside, that he's really not capable of significant change.

As for the nanny--I will ask her to do more (she tidies the main room daily and does kids laundry), but I like the fact that she is always keeping the kids engaged and does lots of things out of the house.....

I am a nanny and I agree with PP. Get a better nanny. Or, have a discussion with her about her tasks.. she might be due for a raise/more responsibilities.

We have a baby and toddler. We have a great nanny, but she does not drive, clean, etc.

Get a better nanny. You will regret not doing it sooner. A good nanny can get the baby and toddler to nap at the same time and get a good amount of light housekeeping done. You would be amazed at how much saner everything is having a nanny just do an hour of light housekeeping. This still gives an hour to an hour an half to kick up her feet and have a long lunch. You just can't afford a non-driving and non-cleaning nanny who sits on the couch through all naps doing nothing.

You will probably need a driving nanny anyway when your older child start preschool unless it is in walking distance. The nanny can also grocery shop with the kids one day a week.

I agree with any strategies that can get you through this phase. Realize it is a phase with two little ones. They aren't little forever and the stress will get better as they get older.

I agree your nanny should be able to cook and clean a little to help out. Sitting down with your husband and listing responsibilities is also a good way to divide the labor. Some people (myself included) work more efficiently if they can visualize with a chart what needs to be done. You each have skills you are better at and things you like doing. Example, my husband takes care of all the yard work. He spends many hours doing that while I do all the laundry. Some chores are more physical. Some chores just take more time to do. As long as both partners are making an effort, don't try to make things 50/50. The split is in the eye of the beholder and all jobs are not equal.

Also, make sure you give your husband credit when credit is due. He may not do a task the same way you would have done it. Nagging him about it will discourage him from trying in the future. Praising him will make him want to continue and he may get better at the task with time.

Finally, toddlers can learn to help pick up their toys. It is actually the best time to start teaching them because then it becomes a life habit. Give them 5 minutes to clean up (you can verbally explain where things go - pictures on baskets help) after each playtime. In my house, we would sing the Barney Clean Up song while picking up. Give them more responsibilities as they get older (ex. put napkins on the table for dinner, move up to cups, silver ware and eventually plates; have them help sort the laundry into color piles). Young kids actually like having jobs around the house. They are proud when they make a contribution. Making them their own responsibilities chart as they get older is a good way to model positive reinforcement by giving them a sticker or prize if they do all the things they are responsible for.

Automate as much as possible. All bills, etc. We spent 1 weekend setting everything up and dividing our bank account into 3: automatic expenses, variable, taxes (se). Not paying bills with all those dates was huge.
Look at his messes and organize around that. My ADHD husband without fail takes off his clothes and neatly lays his suit down on the dining table, and socks on the floor. Rather than convince him to walk 10 steps to our bedroom, I leave a hanger on the dining table and put in a hook in the hallway and a small pretty basket in the corner. Do I love having a small pretty basket of stinky socks where we eat? No, but it beats seeing them on the floor or nagging.
If your job is crazy, cook less. Renegotiate with the nanny so she makes or picks up dinner or otherwise simplify. I now only make meals with 3-4 ingredients and 2 dishes (ie cutting board and wok). Cleaning cutting boards, pots, pans, mixing bowls, spatulas... Was making me bitter.
have a family business night or maybe weekend afternoon. Get takeout for dinner, put the kids down and power through your list for the week.
Lastly make sure he knows how much you appreciate what he does do, and let him know how stressed you are, not because of him, but along with him.

Anonymous wrote:I sympathize with you, having been in a similar situation (& it sounds like we may have similar, take-charge, personalities). I used to be frustrated a lot of the time, but we’ve moved past that so I hope to share some helpful advice.

One thing that helped DH and I a LOT was for me to hand over some domains to him. We started really small - but it started to make a difference - knowing that I don't have to spend any time at all thinking about changing the AC or water filters, buying gas or cleaning the grill, etc. We moved on to bigger things, he's now 100% in charge of the cars, all maintainence appointments (i used to schedule them & bring the cars in, despite the shop being 2 miles from his office).

Yes, if we wrote out a chart, I'd still have more on my list. But I have to be completely honest with myself, I wouldn't be comfortable having him buy the kids clothes, handle our budget, or make our travel plans - I'm too controlling for that. And he knows it - after years of trying to help only to be snapped at that he spent $50 on a kids shirt that should have cost $10, or loading the dishwasher wrong, or whatever - he stopped trying to help.

Another important thing to realize, is that you care about things he doesn’t. He would be fine with a cluttered bathroom (and it’s not really a health hazard, so in reality everyone would be fine in a cluttered bathroom). It drives YOU nuts, so you have to be the one to organize it – it’s not fair to put that on the list of things that you do for the family, you do it for yourself (just like I scrub the silver wear drawer ever week )

Find things that you can give him control over, and then really do it and don't think about it anymore. I don't nag (even though I'm tempted to), if the oil change seems to be scheduled later than it's supposed to - that's his deal.

Be honest with yourself - did you have a hand in creating this? Recognize that you may be happier in charge of a larger share of the labor and he knows you well enough to know that.

Ding! Ding! Ding! In my experience, the women who complain that they're carrying 90% of the load generally commit two very big errors:

1) They often overlook the things their husband actually does. Either they don't notice them/take them for granted or don't value those contributions. For example, my DH spends several hours doing yard work most Spring/Summer weekend days. Now that the kids are older, he has them out working with him. There's mowing, edging, watering, raking, weeding, reseeding, aerating, mulching. We could outsource that stuff, sure, but it would be very expensive. Plus he feels, as a matter of principle, that this is one of the responsibilities of homeownership. That's literally several hours every weekend, probably 35 weekends a year. DH also makes the kids' lunches every day and keeps up on the supplies/menus for that. Plus, he gives them breakfast and still prepares some dinners, so in reality he probably prepares 75% of the meals, even though it feels like I'm the one always making dinner. He cleans the kitchen although like OP, he also thinks a gremlin will clean the hand-washables!). He does bathrooms once a week. The trash is always at the curb. He makes sure the cooler gets out for milk delivery every week. etc. etc.

2) They criticize the WAY their husbands do things. My DH used to do laundry. Then he stopped. I got mad, asked him why I always was doing laundry, and his response was: I got tired of being criticized for the way I did it, being told I ruined this shirt or I should separate by hues, not just darks and whites. So, I stopped doing laundry. There are other tasks he no longer does because, why bother?

Anonymous wrote:Wow, OP, I feel like I wrote this tonite because you sound just like me except I mostly SAH [I WAH about 12 hrs/wk]. I was just thinking I needed an, as you put it, everything chart too. In fact, one of the reasons I haven't returned to WOH FT is because I know none of the division of labor will change. Sorry I don't have advice, but you have my support.

Except, you SAH, so the things she describes is explicitly part of your job description.

I sympathize with you, having been in a similar situation (& it sounds like we may have similar, take-charge, personalities). I used to be frustrated a lot of the time, but we’ve moved past that so I hope to share some helpful advice.

One thing that helped DH and I a LOT was for me to hand over some domains to him. We started really small - but it started to make a difference - knowing that I don't have to spend any time at all thinking about changing the AC or water filters, buying gas or cleaning the grill, etc. We moved on to bigger things, he's now 100% in charge of the cars, all maintainence appointments (i used to schedule them & bring the cars in, despite the shop being 2 miles from his office).

Yes, if we wrote out a chart, I'd still have more on my list. But I have to be completely honest with myself, I wouldn't be comfortable having him buy the kids clothes, handle our budget, or make our travel plans - I'm too controlling for that. And he knows it - after years of trying to help only to be snapped at that he spent $50 on a kids shirt that should have cost $10, or loading the dishwasher wrong, or whatever - he stopped trying to help.

Another important thing to realize, is that you care about things he doesn’t. He would be fine with a cluttered bathroom (and it’s not really a health hazard, so in reality everyone would be fine in a cluttered bathroom). It drives YOU nuts, so you have to be the one to organize it – it’s not fair to put that on the list of things that you do for the family, you do it for yourself (just like I scrub the silver wear drawer ever week )

Find things that you can give him control over, and then really do it and don't think about it anymore. I don't nag (even though I'm tempted to), if the oil change seems to be scheduled later than it's supposed to - that's his deal.

Be honest with yourself - did you have a hand in creating this? Recognize that you may be happier in charge of a larger share of the labor and he knows you well enough to know that.

Read spousonomics. Recognize you both have different specializations and preferences, and try to keep a prioritized list always ready for him to grab something off the queue. But don't try to be equal bc that will drive u crazy. Look more at effort and consideration than result; this is a family not a business so effort does matter.

I also feel like I could've written this. It's so infuriating.

Wow, OP, I feel like I wrote this tonite because you sound just like me except I mostly SAH [I WAH about 12 hrs/wk]. I was just thinking I needed an, as you put it, everything chart too. In fact, one of the reasons I haven't returned to WOH FT is because I know none of the division of labor will change. Sorry I don't have advice, but you have my support.

We are in crisis because I am at my breaking point. I am at an extremely stressful job place right now with deadlines I am missing and far too much work to get done in the day. DH is in a new job (has changed jobs numerous times int he last couple years, so he's been in a new job forever, it seems). We have a baby and toddler. We have a great nanny, but she does not drive, clean, etc. As for the heavy duty cleaning, we have someone every other week for that....so mostly house stuff is intense organization/decluttering and light cleaning.

Our fight tonight, which is essentially every fight, is that I feel like I bear 90 percent of the burden for running the household. We split "hands on" child care more or less evenly, as well as laundry and dishes ( although he often leaves the hand wash items on the sink, as if some magical gremlin is going to do it). The issue is everything else. He thinks everything is equal, but honestly, I don't see it .

What I do exclusively: all the finances (setting a budget, bills, insurance and reimbursement, repairs, researching all investment/college savings, taxes, even sorting out his benefits--he's got a horrible track record of ignoring stuff to our detriment, so I've had to take it all over). All the shopping for the kids (clothes, shoes, appropriate toys/games,), plus sorting toys, cleaning clothes, etc. Most of the grocery shopping (I do pea pod now, which helps), open/sort/file all the mail; water plants; plan all of our vacations/trips; do all the research on daycares and preschools; deal with all of our various and sundry (and unfortunately frequent) house repairs; and declutter the house daily--I literally find DH's dirty socks under the dining room table every morning, and am constantly putting things away that he takes out but forgets to put back. When he takes the kids out, he leaves bags of random stuff around the house and in the car--diapers, half eaten bagels, dirty clothes, dirty bottles, and doesn't put this stuff away.

More generally I have do to all the organization of spaces--like organizing the bathrooms, which then get cluttered in a few weeks (I try to sort things into boxes/categories, DH just takes stuff out and leaves it everywhere) or the drawers in the kitchen, or our dining room, where DH will just pile up papers and bags for weeks. I've tried ignoring it, but I can't stand living like that and its embarrassing when people come over. Oh, and I also cook dinner every night. If I don't cook dinner because I am working late, he will make something like grilled cheese for the kids. He cooks family dinner, or a real dish, maybe every 6 months. Sometimes I am too tired to cook and he will make himself a sandwich---not offer to cook for me.


So, now that I have a shit storm of stuff at work, I need time to work at home, and a reduction of this burden, but DH will not pick up the slack and I lose it. Or he says "what can I do to help?" and I'll tell him something specific--like, please deal with X, but then he doesn't do it, which really pisses me off (I asked him to look into a specific repair and get quotes, and also to look into a specific financial issues--he's done neither, despite repeated requests over months). THen he tells me that maybe I should't worry so much about stuff (like paying our bills? applying for preschool?). And he never says thank you or acknowledges all that I do (yes, I acknowledge what he does). So I've just had it. I'm angry and stressed out all the time and as a result, we're fighting all the time and not enjoying each other's company. In fact, I dream of just leaving. The times when he is out of town is paradoxically easier--I only have myself and two kids to clean up after and deal with. But I don't want to live this way and I don't want a divorce. I just want to get out of this horrible place where I am constantly on the brink of losing it. Sometimes it is 10pm and I am finishing up dishes and settling down to work and he is snoozing on the couch and I want to fucking deck him because I would like to be snoozing on the couch, but I had to make dinner, clean up, do bills and then sit down to work.