Anonymous wrote:They could fight for free medical care for pregnant women, paid maternity leave, subsidised day care for lower income and middle income families, after school activities for children who have working parents.
And double benefits for those who have a child with a disability

+1

I'd add to this fight for excellent schools in all jurisdictions, free health care for children in all jurisdictions, and affordable childcare.

At that point it just wouldn't make any sense to have an abortion.

Condoms, every where, for free

Anonymous wrote:Their is nothing that is going to be said here that will change anyone's mind. Leave jousting windmills to Don Quiotie

Probably not. There are anti-choice women who choose to avail themselves of safe and legal abortion, and still vote or otherwise work to advance anti-choice causes.

Anonymous wrote:make a pro choicer watch an abortion

Honestly, that's a very shallow answer. For people who can tolerate or like to watch surgery (isn't there a whole channel dedicated to this? I don't have cable), I don't think it'd really do anything to dissuade them. For people who don't think watching surgery is fun, they'd be grossed our, but not necessarily any more than for another procedure, and certainly not to the extent as to change their minds.

I'm assuming that you believe that all abortions are dilation and extraction. I think it's only about 5-10% that are; the rest are aspiration as they take place so early. Just for your future reference.

Tell your friends to worry about what goes on with their vagina's and wombs and let me worry about mine. These prolife zealot live in their little everything is black or white little biblical minds. The have no insight into anything that concerns the mother. You can't fight irrational committed type with rational thought.

Let one of these evangelical pro life advocates discover that at the age 47 they are pregnant. The fetus that you are carring with 100% assurity will not survive more that a month, most likely will not survive childbirth.
OK pro lifers chime in tell me I murdered my child, I'm evil and should be sentenced to watch partial birth abortions daily

They could fight for free medical care for pregnant women, paid maternity leave, subsidised day care for lower income and middle income families, after school activities for children who have working parents.
And double benefits for those who have a child with a disability

Anonymous wrote:The thing is, and I say this over and over, no one can end abortion. No one. Whether they like it or not, it is a fact of life. When legal abortion disappears, or is regulated to the point that it functionally disappears, women are killed or permanently scarred in the process of getting one. Or infanticide increases. I remember reading one book, and I apologize that it's been fifteen years and I can no longer remember the title or author, that suggested that some historic "accidental" infant deaths were suffocation.

There is no reducing abortion by legislation, there is making it more dangerous for the woman. Frankly, I wonder if anti-choice people understand and acknowledge that or if they kind of like that idea as a punishment.

This. Most of them don't care. They see it as "she chose to have the abortion, so she deserved that X, Y and Z happened!" even if x, y and z means the death of the woman, infections, etc.

I came from a country where abortion is illegal - only permitted in cases of rape, risk of death to the mother and, most recently the Supreme Court decided that it can also be done when the fetus has no chance of surviving (like anencephaly gor instance) because of the emotional distress to the mother.

It is illegal but still happens all the time. The poor go to "butchers" and the middle class and rich go to clandestine clinics paying through the tubs.

Their is nothing that is going to be said here that will change anyone's mind. Leave jousting windmills to Don Quiotie

make a pro choicer watch an abortion

The thing is, and I say this over and over, no one can end abortion. No one. Whether they like it or not, it is a fact of life. When legal abortion disappears, or is regulated to the point that it functionally disappears, women are killed or permanently scarred in the process of getting one. Or infanticide increases. I remember reading one book, and I apologize that it's been fifteen years and I can no longer remember the title or author, that suggested that some historic "accidental" infant deaths were suffocation.

There is no reducing abortion by legislation, there is making it more dangerous for the woman. Frankly, I wonder if anti-choice people understand and acknowledge that or if they kind of like that idea as a punishment.

Anonymous wrote:They should make sure birth control is easily accessible and covered by insurance. Oh that's right, they don't want that either.

AGREED.

They should make sure birth control is easily accessible and covered by insurance. Oh that's right, they don't want that either.

I am also very pro-choice.

That said, your misguided, single-issue voting friends are probably making the best strategic choice. The last time Roe was before the SCOTUS, it was saved only by Sandra Day O'Connor, who stated that even though Roe may have been incorrectly decided, it had put into place a societal expectation of a right that should not at this point (more than 3 decades later) be revoked. She is now gone. If the issue comes before SCOTUS again, and they can find one more vote, it will be overruled.

I'm not sure this is what you're asking, but one tactic used lately is to make it too expensive to perform abortions. There have been articles about how in Mississippi they added new rules and regulations for the clinics and doctors, forcing them to close. I believe in Virginia (could be wrong about the state) they have also proposed new rules to force the clinics to function like hospitals, effectively forcing many to close.

So I guess I mean pass laws to limit supply or availability, instead of making the act itself illegal.

First of all, not looking for an abortion debate and won't engage in one. I respect both sides of the issue.

My problem is with the single issue voters. I have MANY friends and family members who would never vote for a democrat because they want to see Roe v. Wade overturned. I want to convince them that if they want to fight to end abortions, they need to take their fight elsewhere. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the Court has always maintained a majority of republican-appointed justices since Roe v. Wade. If they wanted to overturn it, they would have by now. And if they did overturn it, that wouldn't make abortion illegal - just that it is not a constitutional right. Wouldn't it just send the issue back to the states? Most states that would ban abortions have already made it quite difficult anyway.

So, the point I want to make is that if you want to fight against abortion, go for it! I like to see people stand up for what they believe whether I agree with them or not. Clearly, getting gov't involved and subjecting us to disgusting protests and images has not been working. Neither has shooting people. So how would you suggest pro-lifers make their stance? for one thing, I guess I would tell them to focus more on science. To throw their support toward scientists trying to prove that a fetus feels pain and has brain function earlier than we currently believe (I think 20 wks?). As a pro-choicer, I would certainly like to know if that is the case. If they can prove that pain is felt as 8 weeks, that would certainly go further in making me change my stance than their current efforts.

So, what would you suggest to these people while respecting their opinion/beliefs?