Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is interesting...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/virginia-schools-insider/post/parent-group-pushing-for-tj-admission-changes/2012/07/20/gJQAHpsqxW_blog.html#pagebreak

Talks about the study that Fairfax County Association for the Gifted did on the admissions.

One thing the study revealed (to quote from article linked above)

"Among the most counterintuitive findings: Downplaying math test scores may contribute to the continued underrepresentation of some minority groups at TJ.
For example, according to FCAG’s analysis of admissions data for the Class of 2011, 25 Latino students applied to TJ. Of those, 11 were among the total 489 students admitted that year. But three of the rejected Latino students had scored above 45 out of 50 on the math admissions test — a performance that put them in the top 440 applicants based solely on test scores."

This is misleading. Over 200 Hispanic/Latino students applied to TJ. The 25 Latino students mentioned in the FCAG materials were those who scored over 40 on the math admissions test.

Any 3 kids in the top 440 [class of 489] for math should not have been rejected. Unless they were from counties/cities that limit the number allowed to go to TJ and had a limit of ie 7 [and had some that scored higher].

Anonymous wrote:This is interesting...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/virginia-schools-insider/post/parent-group-pushing-for-tj-admission-changes/2012/07/20/gJQAHpsqxW_blog.html#pagebreak

Talks about the study that Fairfax County Association for the Gifted did on the admissions.

One thing the study revealed (to quote from article linked above)

"Among the most counterintuitive findings: Downplaying math test scores may contribute to the continued underrepresentation of some minority groups at TJ.
For example, according to FCAG’s analysis of admissions data for the Class of 2011, 25 Latino students applied to TJ. Of those, 11 were among the total 489 students admitted that year. But three of the rejected Latino students had scored above 45 out of 50 on the math admissions test — a performance that put them in the top 440 applicants based solely on test scores."

This is misleading. Over 200 Hispanic/Latino students applied to TJ. The 25 Latino students mentioned in the FCAG materials were those who scored over 40 on the math admissions test.

This is interesting...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/virginia-schools-insider/post/parent-group-pushing-for-tj-admission-changes/2012/07/20/gJQAHpsqxW_blog.html#pagebreak

Talks about the study that Fairfax County Association for the Gifted did on the admissions.

One thing the study revealed (to quote from article linked above)

"Among the most counterintuitive findings: Downplaying math test scores may contribute to the continued underrepresentation of some minority groups at TJ.
For example, according to FCAG’s analysis of admissions data for the Class of 2011, 25 Latino students applied to TJ. Of those, 11 were among the total 489 students admitted that year. But three of the rejected Latino students had scored above 45 out of 50 on the math admissions test — a performance that put them in the top 440 applicants based solely on test scores."

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure they haven't. We live right near Pinnacle Academy which is basically a private stem school for K-8. I'm sure there are other schools besides TJ where these kids go afterwards.

we liked that place; very small classes and they do try to get the students ready for TJ. Unfortunately, DC likes it where he is and doesn't want to go there.

I'm not sure they haven't. We live right near Pinnacle Academy which is basically a private stem school for K-8. I'm sure there are other schools besides TJ where these kids go afterwards.

Why hasn't anyone opened a private STEM academy in this area?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It appears that the School Board is saying that the number of Hisoanic and Black students would not increase at TJ no matter which of the five admission models they chose.

So why not base admission to TJ on math scores? Why not have the students take the PSAT in 8th grade and leave it at that?

I'm genuinely curious why it's so important to everyone to increase the number of Hispanic and Black students at TJ? If that's the goal, more intervention is needed at younger ages to get these marginal populations more prepared. You can't just arbitrarily say TJ isn't diverse enough so let's dumb it down by admitting kids who aren't prepared based on the color of their skin. This is not a finger-snap fix -- it will take years to close the achievement gap. Moreover, that's no reason to close down TJ.

The under representation is what brought about the Young Scholars program, but it never worked. AAP and TJ are still largely Asian and Caucasian.

Anonymous wrote:It appears that the School Board is saying that the number of Hisoanic and Black students would not increase at TJ no matter which of the five admission models they chose.

So why not base admission to TJ on math scores? Why not have the students take the PSAT in 8th grade and leave it at that?

I'm genuinely curious why it's so important to everyone to increase the number of Hispanic and Black students at TJ? If that's the goal, more intervention is needed at younger ages to get these marginal populations more prepared. You can't just arbitrarily say TJ isn't diverse enough so let's dumb it down by admitting kids who aren't prepared based on the color of their skin. This is not a finger-snap fix -- it will take years to close the achievement gap. Moreover, that's no reason to close down TJ.

Anonymous wrote:

think there could be some problems with basing admissions purely on math scores. One being that, when these students graduate and go out into the world, they will need to be able to communicate their ideas to others. Communication is vital in scientific research and the presentation of that research.

It is a stem school. Admissions should be based solely on stem scores. There are plenty of stem types who have poor communication skills (not at all unusual) who perform extremely well in their fields. Trying to find more "rounded" individuals will deny this education to those who are top students in math and science and will dumb down the curriculum. The better course would be to take the top math students and add a program to increase their language/writing skills instead of dumbing down the program. I don't have an ax to grind I have a child who scored at the top in both areas (within a few points of each other) but a weakness in writing should not keep a top mathematician out of T.J>

This is why I think the teacher recommendations are so important. Does anyone know why they went from three to two? The teachers can really give insight into how the kids are performing in class and where it seems that their interests lie. ( I say "seems" because we are talking about 12 and 13 year olds here who could certainly develop other interests as they grow. We need to be careful not to pigeonhole these children at such an early age!)
And, really, these essay questions don't look like they're trying to find budding Shakespeares: they're looking for basic ability to express thoughts in writing. I actually don't think they are looking for well rounded students, just top math and science students who can also communicate.

think there could be some problems with basing admissions purely on math scores. One being that, when these students graduate and go out into the world, they will need to be able to communicate their ideas to others. Communication is vital in scientific research and the presentation of that research.

It is a stem school. Admissions should be based solely on stem scores. There are plenty of stem types who have poor communication skills (not at all unusual) who perform extremely well in their fields. Trying to find more "rounded" individuals will deny this education to those who are top students in math and science and will dumb down the curriculum. The better course would be to take the top math students and add a program to increase their language/writing skills instead of dumbing down the program. I don't have an ax to grind I have a child who scored at the top in both areas (within a few points of each other) but a weakness in writing should not keep a top mathematician out of T.J>

I think there could be some problems with basing admissions purely on math scores. One being that, when these students graduate and go out into the world, they will need to be able to communicate their ideas to others. Communication is vital in scientific research and the presentation of that research.
I just do not see the point of accepting students with high level math and science skills but possibly poor writing skills. The pool of applicants in Northern Virginia is large enough that there are plenty of eighth graders who are strong math and science students and have good writing skills.
They may need to tweak the system to find those with the strongest math skills, but there is no need to remove the writing component. Maybe putting back in the third teacher recommendation that they took out a few years ago would help to find the students who truly shine in class.

Did anyone attend the meeting? Anything to share?

It appears that the School Board is saying that the number of Hisoanic and Black students would not increase at TJ no matter which of the five admission models they chose.

So why not base admission to TJ on math scores? Why not have the students take the PSAT in 8th grade and leave it at that?

What a mess! It seems clear that the current admissions process has produced the worst possible outcome: growing numbers of students who struggle in tough math/science classes, yet a school where black and Hispanic students are few and far between. Either the criteria need to be revised so the focus is on admitting the most qualified STEM students or FCPS should just shut TJ down.

The FCPS School Board is meeting to discuss TJ admissions on Thursday July 19 from 6 - 9 pm at the Gatehouse Administration building.

Link to agenda (on BoardDocs):
http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/goto?open&id=8W9QCN68AF01

The Fairfax County Association for the Gifted (FCAG) has posted TJ admissions materials on its website

http://www.fcag.org

which may also be of interest to parents.