I would say it is normal for a 4yo. I have a son that has "issues" and it was told to me that at 4 it is normal but since he was almost 6 it was not.

Either way, I think the 2nd part of Magic 1-2-3 - how to start good behavior would be helpful.

My 4 yo DD does this as well, particularly when she is tired, when I haven't seen her all day or when there is a lot going on. I usually stare at her while she does it, which makes her stop pretty quickly and then, when she's done, I say "are you done now? OK, let's move on." I don't process it with her, OP. Can't see what good would come of it. If she didn't stop pretty quickly, I'd send her to her room to finish, but that's not really necessary.

14:11 here. Hugs worked with our son as well. He was just so wound up emotionally, he needed to be calmed down (this is at home; if he were in the car, I'd ignore it). Never really had them outside the house.

Prevention is very helpful at this age, rather than punishment after the fact. Set her up for success by catching and praising her when she's good, when she's acting like a "big girl" and a "great helper." Do it a lot. Do it some more. It really does help minimize (but not eliminate) bad behavior.

We have a 4 y/o boy and several times a day, I silently repeat something to myself that someone once told me: "I never met a 4 year old I liked".

It helps me to know that in general, 4 year olds are rough. I can't believe anyone would want to teach a bunch of them every day in daycare/school!

We dropped the time outs and most punishments when our older one was about six - it wasn't working. He had needs and fears that we weren't aware of and he didn't know how to handle on his own. We're became fans of Celebratecalm.com, which is a lot about getting my own "issues" under control and helping my child learn to understand and manage his needs. It turns out that particular types of vigorous physical exercise and improved nutrition made a difference. It's nice to have a house where people aren't screaming every day.

My 4 year old also does this, so not sure if it's normal, but wanted to empathize. We have meltdowns still over the most random things.

I agree with the PP that calmly trying to discuss anything doesn't help at all.

OP again. So 14:24. What do you do as a punishment that actually works (as my time-out strategy apparent does not)?

OP here. So 14:08 - I'm a little intrigued by this. So maybe your DC tantrums aren't bad, but I'm trying to imagine tolerating the kicking, and screaming, and whining for as long as it goes on without removing her from the situation? I do respond initially how you do - "I understand that you wanted to park the car frontways, but I needed to unload the groceries, so we backed in today. Maybe next time we can do it your way." (This is responded to with kicking and screaming about the car). Then I don't know where we go from here, I've already acknowledged her frustration, told her it's not going to change, let her know it's not a permanent situation, etc. Plus to me, the tantrum is the behavior I'm trying to curb, so I feel like I need to punish it (remove her from the situation until she has control of her feelings). What does everyone else think?

I wouldn't say it's abnormal (as in there is something wrong with your child) but I don't think it's normal either. I think part of the problem is, like PP said, they are not punished for having the tantrums. Unlike 2 year olds, 4 year olds do have self control and know what they can and cannot do. They are testing limits and it's up to parents to make sure they understand what those are.

That being said, my 4 year old is not an angel and still throws tantrums. But they are becoming less and less common and she now knows that they are not acceptable.

Our 3 yo kid does this, and honestly, sometimes a stern "yell" does the trick. Calmly pleading with an irrational kid does nothing for us. Pleading, or engaging irrational trantrummy behavior of any kind makes it worse. We've found that a holler/quip/stern yell shocks them into shape real quick, and often times curbs the behavior.

14:08. Wanted to add that while I don't give into the demands, I try not to punish for simply having a tantrum (if there is no hitting, etc.) Sometimes I'll say, I know you are mad and frustrated. Would you like a hug? and often she'll accept.

I think it's all of the above. They are very apparent with their emotions and while we control our responses, they let it all out. What helped for us was giving our son more control of things in his life. For him that meant little things like being able to roll the car window up and down at will. Picking the restaurant on our biweekly dinner out. Choosing clothes. And just getting more choices in general. So when I had to make him do something, he was often more accepting because he knew he did have real control at other times. It isn't perfect, but it helped a lot.

My 4 year old does this too. Things have to be a certain way. It's alot better now that she's about to turn 5 in 3 months. It still happens...though not nearly as much as it once did. I chalk it up to her being a kid and learning how to deal with her emotions. Sometimes they get the best of her.

I don't know if it's normal but sounds just like my 4 year old DD, who has a 1 year old sister. It's maddening. I've been doing time outs/logical consequences but it really hasn't worked. Often it ratchets up the conflict. I am reading about positive discipline now and we are meeting with a child psych on Friday. I don't know if it's "that bad" yet, but I am truly scared about the future if we don't fix what's wrong.

Hugs, I know what you are going through. The best advice I can give is to remain calm (it's hard) and don't yell. At my house, that makes everything worse.

My DD is going through a MAJOR whining/tantrum phase. It is out of control. And I wish it was about something substantial, but the littlest things set one off. For example, a few days ago she had a kicking screaming fit because I backed into the driveway and she wanted the car to be facing forwards. ugh. 20 minutes!! Other examples - the wrong sippy cup, someone not doing exactly what she says during a game, etc.

My current strategy is: as soon as it starts, I tell her no one else wants to hear her screaming, please go finish screaming in her room. Which she does. 20 minutes later (when it's over), I will go in there, talk to her about her behavior, she becomes very rational - "I won't do that again mommy." "Sorry I acted that way." But then we repeat the same cycle. Sometimes there are a few tantrums a day, sometimes none, but my strategy doesn't seem to be working long term because they are still happening. It's maddening!!! Another small piece of background (though it doesn't completely correlate time-wise) - she has a new (month old) sister and I have now stay home (no more nanny).

Is this normal, adjustment to new family dynamic, a phase, help??!!!