Anonymous
06/06/2012 13:46
Subject: The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
Anonymous wrote:I am on the several of these lists. I don't have time to go back and look at the original post and the discussion thread. But, in general, what I remember is that this "proposal" isn't really a serious one, or rather it was made knowing that it was politically impossible.
I think it is a reflection of the frustration that the GTA guy (and many parents) feel trying to get appropriate higher level instruction for their kids. In the red zone (where this guy lives), the schools generally provide fewer acceleration options. It would take an entirely different looong thread to lay out possible reasons why (higher poverty rates, less ability of parents to advocate, racism, lower rates of entry preparedness, etc.) The school system approach to ensuring "equity" in these schools seems to be to fail to provide acceleration/challenge so that the differences between the least prepared and most prepared are less obvious.
This problem doesn't present itself as clearly in green zone schools because by and large the kids come to school already at higher levels of academic performance (again another thread to discuss why -- wealth, opportunity, outside tutoring, parents who push/advocate, etc.). So, green zone kids get a higher base level of teaching so that even when their parents fail in efforts to get acceleration/challenge, the base level is not as low as in a red zone school.
The article that was posted and the suggestion to integrate schools comes out of these frustrations and a recent study that shows that low income kids who gain entry to high income public schools are able to perform better (again another thread to discuss why -- better teaching, more prepared peers, etc.) So, maybe the true answer to "equity in schools", i.e. performance outcomes where low income and minority kids can perform as well as wealthy white kids, is to simply integrate our schools. (It's another question how "doable" this is.)
I write this as a parent who has had kids in both green zone and red zone schools, and have been in DCPS and MoCo schools. I have been appalled in both districts about the poor teaching and low expectations set in schools that have mostly low income minority kids. As a citizen it's sad to see and corrosive to our democracy that low income minority kids get such a different and lower quality education than their wealthy peers in public school.
I also say this as a parent who grew up in MoCo, went to a school that was mostly white and was integrated in the late 70s/early 80s. I am a strong supporter of integrated schools and have been dismayed to see MCPS make some moves that I think undermine school integration. Of course, I don't support long distance forced busing to rectify entrenched segregated housing patterns, which is what would have to happen to totally integrate our county due to the very segregated housing patterns (which is also another long thread about why our segregated housing patterns arose -- racially exclusive property covenants, VA and FHA mortgage loan history, mortgage redlining, etc.) But, where it is possible to integrate schools w/ shorter bus rides (under 1/2 hour) or to situate magnet programs or choice programs to increase diversity, I support such programs.
Appreciate your trying to defend the "GTA guy." I am on all those lists and have seen this proposal being pushed very, very hard many times.
It looks like you want to push for a socialistic society and are using the school system to do so. The "GTA guy" on the one side wants to integrate society and on the other he wants to segregate classrooms by advocating separate classes for wealthy, well-prepared. Sounds like a liberal!!! This is America, and we have to understand the people can chose to live where they want. Move to Cuba if you want a society where all housing costs the same.
Anonymous
06/06/2012 09:53
Subject: The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
I am on the several of these lists. I don't have time to go back and look at the original post and the discussion thread. But, in general, what I remember is that this "proposal" isn't really a serious one, or rather it was made knowing that it was politically impossible.
I think it is a reflection of the frustration that the GTA guy (and many parents) feel trying to get appropriate higher level instruction for their kids. In the red zone (where this guy lives), the schools generally provide fewer acceleration options. It would take an entirely different looong thread to lay out possible reasons why (higher poverty rates, less ability of parents to advocate, racism, lower rates of entry preparedness, etc.) The school system approach to ensuring "equity" in these schools seems to be to fail to provide acceleration/challenge so that the differences between the least prepared and most prepared are less obvious.
This problem doesn't present itself as clearly in green zone schools because by and large the kids come to school already at higher levels of academic performance (again another thread to discuss why -- wealth, opportunity, outside tutoring, parents who push/advocate, etc.). So, green zone kids get a higher base level of teaching so that even when their parents fail in efforts to get acceleration/challenge, the base level is not as low as in a red zone school.
The article that was posted and the suggestion to integrate schools comes out of these frustrations and a recent study that shows that low income kids who gain entry to high income public schools are able to perform better (again another thread to discuss why -- better teaching, more prepared peers, etc.) So, maybe the true answer to "equity in schools", i.e. performance outcomes where low income and minority kids can perform as well as wealthy white kids, is to simply integrate our schools. (It's another question how "doable" this is.)
I write this as a parent who has had kids in both green zone and red zone schools, and have been in DCPS and MoCo schools. I have been appalled in both districts about the poor teaching and low expectations set in schools that have mostly low income minority kids. As a citizen it's sad to see and corrosive to our democracy that low income minority kids get such a different and lower quality education than their wealthy peers in public school.
I also say this as a parent who grew up in MoCo, went to a school that was mostly white and was integrated in the late 70s/early 80s. I am a strong supporter of integrated schools and have been dismayed to see MCPS make some moves that I think undermine school integration. Of course, I don't support long distance forced busing to rectify entrenched segregated housing patterns, which is what would have to happen to totally integrate our county due to the very segregated housing patterns (which is also another long thread about why our segregated housing patterns arose -- racially exclusive property covenants, VA and FHA mortgage loan history, mortgage redlining, etc.) But, where it is possible to integrate schools w/ shorter bus rides (under 1/2 hour) or to situate magnet programs or choice programs to increase diversity, I support such programs.
I think it is a reflection of the frustration that the GTA guy (and many parents) feel trying to get appropriate higher level instruction for their kids. In the red zone (where this guy lives), the schools generally provide fewer acceleration options. It would take an entirely different looong thread to lay out possible reasons why (higher poverty rates, less ability of parents to advocate, racism, lower rates of entry preparedness, etc.) The school system approach to ensuring "equity" in these schools seems to be to fail to provide acceleration/challenge so that the differences between the least prepared and most prepared are less obvious.
This problem doesn't present itself as clearly in green zone schools because by and large the kids come to school already at higher levels of academic performance (again another thread to discuss why -- wealth, opportunity, outside tutoring, parents who push/advocate, etc.). So, green zone kids get a higher base level of teaching so that even when their parents fail in efforts to get acceleration/challenge, the base level is not as low as in a red zone school.
The article that was posted and the suggestion to integrate schools comes out of these frustrations and a recent study that shows that low income kids who gain entry to high income public schools are able to perform better (again another thread to discuss why -- better teaching, more prepared peers, etc.) So, maybe the true answer to "equity in schools", i.e. performance outcomes where low income and minority kids can perform as well as wealthy white kids, is to simply integrate our schools. (It's another question how "doable" this is.)
I write this as a parent who has had kids in both green zone and red zone schools, and have been in DCPS and MoCo schools. I have been appalled in both districts about the poor teaching and low expectations set in schools that have mostly low income minority kids. As a citizen it's sad to see and corrosive to our democracy that low income minority kids get such a different and lower quality education than their wealthy peers in public school.
I also say this as a parent who grew up in MoCo, went to a school that was mostly white and was integrated in the late 70s/early 80s. I am a strong supporter of integrated schools and have been dismayed to see MCPS make some moves that I think undermine school integration. Of course, I don't support long distance forced busing to rectify entrenched segregated housing patterns, which is what would have to happen to totally integrate our county due to the very segregated housing patterns (which is also another long thread about why our segregated housing patterns arose -- racially exclusive property covenants, VA and FHA mortgage loan history, mortgage redlining, etc.) But, where it is possible to integrate schools w/ shorter bus rides (under 1/2 hour) or to situate magnet programs or choice programs to increase diversity, I support such programs.
Anonymous
06/03/2012 15:44
Subject: Re:The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
Anonymous wrote:
This proposal would be political suicide for Starr, though those of us on the east side of the county would find it highly satisfying to see those on the west side watch their 200K housing premiums disappear overnight if their houses were no longer exclusively assigned to the super special schools. I have always found it distasteful for people to pay a lot more money just to live in a neighborhood with largely white schools, and then declare that they deserve better quality schools because they paid more for their houses.
+1
+100.
Anonymous
06/02/2012 10:43
Subject: The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
Anonymous wrote:I just read my emails from yesterday and saw the president of the GTAMC asking parents to email Superintendent Starr and the BOE and ask them to "change assignment policy to maximize integration by race, ethnicity and class." One way to do that would be to get math acceleration and global screening (is that what they call the 2nd grade testing?) and GT all together.
Should we support his efforts?
OP, I'm confused. What do you mean? "get math acceleration, global screening and GT all together?"
Anonymous
06/02/2012 06:11
Subject: Re:The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
Anonymous wrote:This proposal would be political suicide for Starr, though those of us on the east side of the county would find it highly satisfying to see those on the west side watch their 200K housing premiums disappear overnight if their houses were no longer exclusively assigned to the super special schools. I have always found it distasteful for people to pay a lot more money just to live in a neighborhood with largely white schools, and then declare that they deserve better quality schools because they paid more for their houses.
+1
Anonymous
06/02/2012 04:43
Subject: The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:To carry out the proposal to its natural extension shouldn't we insist that all housing in Maryland be the same, all schools be the same, and all teachers be paid the same?
Or do we stop our altruistic instincts at the boundary where we can't pay a premium for our teachers?
The idea is DOA. I doubt the GTA supporting it--I didn't see it on the GTA email list.
+1 I did not see this on the GTA listserve. I am not sure what the original poster is referring to. The NY times editorial that someone (perhaps the original poster) cited is written by someone from Virginia.
I am confused.
The poster at 05/31/2012 14:16 posted a copy of an email on the Parent's Coalition email list posted by the GTAMC President. The GTAMC President cites the NY Times column, quotes a passage from the book mentioned in the coulmn and then suggests that parents email the BOE and Starr. He said "Email boe@mcpsmd.org and Joshua_Starr@mcpsmd.org. Ask them to change assignment policy to maximize integration by race, ethnicity and class."
It surprises me that he didn't post it on the GTA email list. Is he representing the GTAMC or is he getting ready to run for BOE or something?
Anonymous
06/01/2012 17:54
Subject: The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
Anonymous wrote:To carry out the proposal to its natural extension shouldn't we insist that all housing in Maryland be the same, all schools be the same, and all teachers be paid the same?
Or do we stop our altruistic instincts at the boundary where we can't pay a premium for our teachers?
The idea is DOA. I doubt the GTA supporting it--I didn't see it on the GTA email list.
+1 I did not see this on the GTA listserve. I am not sure what the original poster is referring to. The NY times editorial that someone (perhaps the original poster) cited is written by someone from Virginia.
I am confused.
Anonymous
06/01/2012 12:26
Subject: The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
To carry out the proposal to its natural extension shouldn't we insist that all housing in Maryland be the same, all schools be the same, and all teachers be paid the same?
Or do we stop our altruistic instincts at the boundary where we can't pay a premium for our teachers?
The idea is DOA. I doubt the GTA supporting it--I didn't see it on the GTA email list.
Or do we stop our altruistic instincts at the boundary where we can't pay a premium for our teachers?
The idea is DOA. I doubt the GTA supporting it--I didn't see it on the GTA email list.
Anonymous
06/01/2012 10:15
Subject: Re:The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
This proposal would be political suicide for Starr, though those of us on the east side of the county would find it highly satisfying to see those on the west side watch their 200K housing premiums disappear overnight if their houses were no longer exclusively assigned to the super special schools. I have always found it distasteful for people to pay a lot more money just to live in a neighborhood with largely white schools, and then declare that they deserve better quality schools because they paid more for their houses.
Anonymous
05/31/2012 14:16
Subject: Re:The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
Anonymous wrote:Can you post the email? Why would they be requesting this?
E-MAIL: "See the NYT op-ed piece "Romney's School Surprise" by James E. Ryan. http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/romneys-school-surprise/. Ryan is a law professor at U Va. The piece identifies "the real source of educational inequality in this country: school district boundaries, which wall off good school systems from failing ones." This is a jurisdictional variation of intra-district school assignment policies that separate kids by wealth.
As the little squib at the bottom of the piece notes, Ryan wrote the 2010 book "Five Miles Away, a World Apart: One City, Two Schools, and the Story of Educational Opportunity in Modern America." Here's a paragraph from the book:
"In short, integrated schools are superior to segregated ones both as a matter of education policy and as a matter of political strategy. Integrated schools offer more potential for educational oportunities to be equal, adequate, and full. Students who attend racially diverse and predominantly middle-income schools have a greater chance at succeeding academically than those who attend high-poverty, high-minority schools. And all students who attend diverse schools have an opportunity to obtain a fuller and richer education than those who attend schools isolated by race, class, and ethnicity. There is no guarantee that students in integrated schools will receive all of these benefits, but the potential is there in a way that is not in segregated schools. At the same time, integration along lines of race and class can reshape the politics of edcuational opportunty by linking the fate of politically weak families and that of politically powerful ones."
So, not to be too intellectual about it, what can we do? Email boe@mcpsmd.org and Joshua_Starr@mcpsmd.org. Ask them to change assignment policy to maximize integration by race, ethnicity and class."
Anonymous
05/31/2012 13:19
Subject: Re:The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
Can you post the email? Why would they be requesting this?
Anonymous
05/31/2012 12:20
Subject: The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I just read my emails from yesterday and saw the president of the GTAMC asking parents to email Superintendent Starr and the BOE and ask them to "change assignment policy to maximize integration by race, ethnicity and class." One way to do that would be to get math acceleration and global screening (is that what they call the 2nd grade testing?) and GT all together.
Should we support his efforts?
You mean eliminating GT and math acceleration will also "maximize integration by race, ethnicity and class?" Looks like MCPS has managed to get everyone on their side.
more busing. green zone kids to red zone and red zone kids to green zone. more taxes to pay for the buses. way to go!
Won't happen.
Anonymous
05/31/2012 10:31
Subject: The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I just read my emails from yesterday and saw the president of the GTAMC asking parents to email Superintendent Starr and the BOE and ask them to "change assignment policy to maximize integration by race, ethnicity and class." One way to do that would be to get math acceleration and global screening (is that what they call the 2nd grade testing?) and GT all together.
Should we support his efforts?
You mean eliminating GT and math acceleration will also "maximize integration by race, ethnicity and class?" Looks like MCPS has managed to get everyone on their side.
more busing. green zone kids to red zone and red zone kids to green zone. more taxes to pay for the buses. way to go!
Anonymous
05/31/2012 09:53
Subject: The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
Anonymous wrote:I just read my emails from yesterday and saw the president of the GTAMC asking parents to email Superintendent Starr and the BOE and ask them to "change assignment policy to maximize integration by race, ethnicity and class." One way to do that would be to get math acceleration and global screening (is that what they call the 2nd grade testing?) and GT all together.
Should we support his efforts?
You mean eliminating GT and math acceleration will also "maximize integration by race, ethnicity and class?" Looks like MCPS has managed to get everyone on their side.
Anonymous
05/31/2012 09:42
Subject: The GTA president's proposal for school integration--what do you think?
I just read my emails from yesterday and saw the president of the GTAMC asking parents to email Superintendent Starr and the BOE and ask them to "change assignment policy to maximize integration by race, ethnicity and class." One way to do that would be to get math acceleration and global screening (is that what they call the 2nd grade testing?) and GT all together.
Should we support his efforts?
Should we support his efforts?