Anonymous
05/21/2012 17:25
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:I suspect a lot of the kids who are held back will just leave and go back to regular public school where they'll be socially promoted, receive differentiated instruction and out of the hair of the BASIS crowd that doesn't want anything but the best kids.
Most BASIS parents will be satisfied with this arrangement because it's better for their own kid, assuming it's not their own kid that's being held back.
Soon parents of marginal kids will know better than to send their kid somewhere where he/she will be humiliated and the intellectual segregation will be complete -- all on the tax payers dime and at no cost to parents of high-achieving kids.
Seems to me that you are saying schools should not meet the needs of advanced learners.
Why should schools only meet the needs of students who are not advanced learners???
As it stands now there are no other public or charter schools in DC who are as rigorous as Basis which means that advanced learners' needs are not truly met at this time. It is about time that DC had a school like Basis to help meet these currently unmet needs!!
Anonymous
05/21/2012 17:15
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:
The BASIS way serves the gifted kids while humiliating the ones who aren't so gifted. Still, they deserve an education that doesn't include using them as fodder for what is ultimately a scheme to get a private-school level education at public expense for parents who want to seem open-minded and unbiased, but really aren't.
Basis most certainly is not proposing to humiliate anyone. First of all, all of the info sessions outlined their advanced curricula in detail. Second, Basis is providing extensive tutoring right now to all students who want it. In fact, they encouraged all students to participate. Third, Basis will be offering tutoring everyday prior to school and afterschool all year for any student who needs it. Lastly, Basis does not counsel anyone out.
Anyone who signs up their student should know that students will have to work in order to succeed. Therefore, IMO parents and students need to be responsible for their choices instead of blaming others for their own failures especially when extensive supports are offered.
A rigorous academic course is not for everyone. Thank goodness DC has school choice!!!
Anonymous
05/21/2012 16:58
Subject: Re:Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Still, they deserve an education that doesn't include using them as fodder for what is ultimately a scheme to get a private-school level education at public expense for parents who want to seem open-minded and unbiased, but really aren't.
Whoah. I grew up in public housing and attend Bronx Science. My classmates ran circles around NYC private school grads in science and math (from Dalton, Collegiate, Trinity, Ethical Culture, you name it), and went on to colleges like Texas A & M, CalTech, MIT, Ivies. The public-private divide is meaningless where great public schools exist (not here). Drop it. A worldclass education can be had with the right prep for the right poor kids, and a great education for the rest. As a taxpayer, I'm not open-minded or unbiased about selecting talent and cultivating it because I know better. Basis and DC Charter are attempting the impossible to be high-minded rather than practical - many of their kids will be running from crummy neighborhood schools without the talent to ace the curriclum = waste in public education. Hackneyed fare.
Whoah. I grew up in public housing and attend Bronx Science. My classmates ran circles around NYC private school grads in science and math (from Dalton, Collegiate, Trinity, Ethical Culture, you name it), and went on to colleges like Texas A & M, CalTech, MIT, Ivies. The public-private divide is meaningless where great public schools exist (not here). Drop it. A worldclass education can be had with the right prep for the right poor kids, and a great education for the rest. As a taxpayer, I'm not open-minded or unbiased about selecting talent and cultivating it because I know better. Basis and DC Charter are attempting the impossible to be high-minded rather than practical - many of their kids will be running from crummy neighborhood schools without the talent to ace the curriclum = waste in public education. Hackneyed fare.
Anonymous
05/21/2012 16:39
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
But what if a kid is super gifted in some subjects but really struggling in another? Would BASIS hold back a child in one subject, but allow them to advance and stay with their peers in the other subjects?
Anonymous
05/21/2012 16:22
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I suspect a lot of the kids who are held back will just leave and go back to regular public school where they'll be socially promoted, receive differentiated instruction and out of the hair of the BASIS crowd that doesn't want anything but the best kids.
Most BASIS parents will be satisfied with this arrangement because it's better for their own kid, assuming it's not their own kid that's being held back.
Soon parents of marginal kids will know better than to send their kid somewhere where he/she will be humiliated and the intellectual segregation will be complete -- all on the tax payers dime and at no cost to parents of high-achieving kids.
I think you are absolutely right here. I think it's the way BASIS will ultimately achieve its goals in DC.
I do not like the characterization as something nefarious and equivalent to getting an exclusive education on the public dime. But I question what is wrong with having a school that addresses the needs of gifted (or adacademically advanced) kids and may not be a good fit for others. There are certainly schools that serve non-gifted kids well.
It is not about getting an advantage, it is about getting a child's needs met. Why are children who are gifted academically not entitled to having their needs met?
As another poster suggested -- magnet schools can meet this need without the sideshow of flushing out kids who aren't ready for advanced work by holding them back a year.
The BASIS way serves the gifted kids while humiliating the ones who aren't so gifted. Still, they deserve an education that doesn't include using them as fodder for what is ultimately a scheme to get a private-school level education at public expense for parents who want to seem open-minded and unbiased, but really aren't.
Anonymous
05/21/2012 15:52
Subject: Re:Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
I don't understand why it would be so awful simply to identify and attract kids who could and would do the work at Basis?
If a DC charter school can't pick kid who would be a good fit for the school, change the law, or make the school a DCPS school, or the first DCPS-charter hybrid (at a time when DCPS officials have started making public statements about creating such schools). PPs call this approach a "fantasy," when it's the norm in cities all over the country, large and small.
My older child attended a selective admissions MS in NYC, before we moved to NW. Most of the kids were black or Latino from low or moderate-income families. They had come up through talented and gifted ES programs. Nobody got held back because almost everybody could and would do the work required. The system was simple, uncontroversial and it worked. Without instituting ES TAG programs, isn't DC simply cutting corners on trying to launch a high-powered academic MS attended by many low-income students? The more I hear about how Basis will run, the less inclined I am to think that it will achieve its goals.
If a DC charter school can't pick kid who would be a good fit for the school, change the law, or make the school a DCPS school, or the first DCPS-charter hybrid (at a time when DCPS officials have started making public statements about creating such schools). PPs call this approach a "fantasy," when it's the norm in cities all over the country, large and small.
My older child attended a selective admissions MS in NYC, before we moved to NW. Most of the kids were black or Latino from low or moderate-income families. They had come up through talented and gifted ES programs. Nobody got held back because almost everybody could and would do the work required. The system was simple, uncontroversial and it worked. Without instituting ES TAG programs, isn't DC simply cutting corners on trying to launch a high-powered academic MS attended by many low-income students? The more I hear about how Basis will run, the less inclined I am to think that it will achieve its goals.
Anonymous
05/21/2012 15:49
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I suspect a lot of the kids who are held back will just leave and go back to regular public school where they'll be socially promoted, receive differentiated instruction and out of the hair of the BASIS crowd that doesn't want anything but the best kids.
Most BASIS parents will be satisfied with this arrangement because it's better for their own kid, assuming it's not their own kid that's being held back.
Soon parents of marginal kids will know better than to send their kid somewhere where he/she will be humiliated and the intellectual segregation will be complete -- all on the tax payers dime and at no cost to parents of high-achieving kids.
I think you are absolutely right here. I think it's the way BASIS will ultimately achieve its goals in DC.
I do not like the characterization as something nefarious and equivalent to getting an exclusive education on the public dime. But I question what is wrong with having a school that addresses the needs of gifted (or adacademically advanced) kids and may not be a good fit for others. There are certainly schools that serve non-gifted kids well.
It is not about getting an advantage, it is about getting a child's needs met. Why are children who are gifted academically not entitled to having their needs met?
Anonymous
05/21/2012 15:37
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
When all the regular public schools have been turned into charters, there will be a charter school for kids who can't make it in a school like BASIS.
Anonymous
05/21/2012 15:22
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Just to expose people to some thoughts (and research!) on the subject of retention, check out this article:
http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/mar08/vol65/num06/Grade-Retention.aspx
Early and steady intervention is the key to success here. That may mean longer days and summer academic programs.
It is interesting that the studies seem focused exclusively on the educational and social impact of a policy of retention on the retained student. Perhaps I was not reading carefully, but I saw no mention of studies gauging the impact of a policy of retention on the retained student's peers.
When a student is retained, not only does he get a second chance to master the material he is having trouble with, but his peers get a chance to advance to more challenging material without the burden of devoting class time to remediation.
It is difficult enough to teach Algebra II to a group of students who have mastered Algebra I. It is much more difficult to do so if you must devote precious instruction time to repeating concepts from Algebra I or Pre-Algebra to those students who were promoted socially. How do you teach a child to factor polynomials when he has trouble factoring integers?
What do the children who mastered the material do while the teacher provides remedial instruction to those that did not? Twiddle their thumbs? Is that their reward for having studied hard the previous year?
So essentially you're saying the 7th grade could move on to 8th, without the distraction of the kid who couldn't get through 7th, because he'd be repeating the year. But what about the kid from last year's 7th grade class who is now repeating it with them? You think the fact that he's one year bigger and older will translate into one year more mature and somehow less disruptive?
Seriously, an urban public school is not going to be able to shed its student body of all the lower SES students. Somebody's going to notice that there's a demographic pattern at work when 1/3 of the students fall by the wayside. They might have to come up with an alternate track for those kids? Don't know, but they'll have to do something. This isn't private school, you can't just counsel out the kids that can't take it.
Anonymous
05/21/2012 15:06
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:I suspect a lot of the kids who are held back will just leave and go back to regular public school where they'll be socially promoted, receive differentiated instruction and out of the hair of the BASIS crowd that doesn't want anything but the best kids.
Most BASIS parents will be satisfied with this arrangement because it's better for their own kid, assuming it's not their own kid that's being held back.
Soon parents of marginal kids will know better than to send their kid somewhere where he/she will be humiliated and the intellectual segregation will be complete -- all on the tax payers dime and at no cost to parents of high-achieving kids.
I think you are absolutely right here. I think it's the way BASIS will ultimately achieve its goals in DC.
Anonymous
05/21/2012 14:54
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
I suspect a lot of the kids who are held back will just leave and go back to regular public school where they'll be socially promoted, receive differentiated instruction and out of the hair of the BASIS crowd that doesn't want anything but the best kids.
Most BASIS parents will be satisfied with this arrangement because it's better for their own kid, assuming it's not their own kid that's being held back.
Soon parents of marginal kids will know better than to send their kid somewhere where he/she will be humiliated and the intellectual segregation will be complete -- all on the tax payers dime and at no cost to parents of high-achieving kids.
Most BASIS parents will be satisfied with this arrangement because it's better for their own kid, assuming it's not their own kid that's being held back.
Soon parents of marginal kids will know better than to send their kid somewhere where he/she will be humiliated and the intellectual segregation will be complete -- all on the tax payers dime and at no cost to parents of high-achieving kids.
Anonymous
05/21/2012 14:22
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Anonymous wrote:Just to expose people to some thoughts (and research!) on the subject of retention, check out this article:
http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/mar08/vol65/num06/Grade-Retention.aspx
Early and steady intervention is the key to success here. That may mean longer days and summer academic programs.
It is interesting that the studies seem focused exclusively on the educational and social impact of a policy of retention on the retained student. Perhaps I was not reading carefully, but I saw no mention of studies gauging the impact of a policy of retention on the retained student's peers.
When a student is retained, not only does he get a second chance to master the material he is having trouble with, but his peers get a chance to advance to more challenging material without the burden of devoting class time to remediation.
It is difficult enough to teach Algebra II to a group of students who have mastered Algebra I. It is much more difficult to do so if you must devote precious instruction time to repeating concepts from Algebra I or Pre-Algebra to those students who were promoted socially. How do you teach a child to factor polynomials when he has trouble factoring integers?
What do the children who mastered the material do while the teacher provides remedial instruction to those that did not? Twiddle their thumbs? Is that their reward for having studied hard the previous year?
Anonymous
05/21/2012 11:53
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
Just to expose people to some thoughts (and research!) on the subject of retention, check out this article:
http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/mar08/vol65/num06/Grade-Retention.aspx
Early and steady intervention is the key to success here. That may mean longer days and summer academic programs.
http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/mar08/vol65/num06/Grade-Retention.aspx
Early and steady intervention is the key to success here. That may mean longer days and summer academic programs.
Anonymous
05/21/2012 11:37
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
This is a "wait and see" if I've ever heard one. Basis has no idea what they will do, because they have no idea who's coming through their doors, and what they'll have to do to educate them.
More than one charter MS has given up on focusing just on MS, and decided to open an elementary school as well - so that they could teach their 5th graders at an actual 5th grade level.
More than one charter MS has given up on focusing just on MS, and decided to open an elementary school as well - so that they could teach their 5th graders at an actual 5th grade level.
Anonymous
05/21/2012 11:27
Subject: Lack of Social Promotion at BASIS?
My child isn't old enough yet to attend BASIS, but I am somewhat concerned about the lack of social promotion at BASIS-- I'm sure my child will do fine and progress each year, but I'm worried about her being surrounded by a bunch of kids that are far older than her. Or does BASIS think that not many kids will get held back? Or does BASIS anticipate that many will be held back, but that those held back will be pulled out and receive intensive education (perhaps over summer?) so the child can get caught up and re-enter the class he or she should be in for their age? Getting held back isn't just detrimental for the child, it seems it would be awkward for the other kids in the classroom.