Anonymous wrote:Take a look at emotionally focused therapy, OP. It focuses on helping partners express their deepest emotions to each other as a way to build intimacy.

And I agree that the inability to express emotions or have emotional intimacy doesn't have to come from a dysfunctional childhood - it is more a matter of whether our parents teach us to express emotions, model that behavior, and make it safe for us to do so. (Take a look at books about emotional IQ.) I'm pretty "normal" - no mood disorders, personality disorders, or dysfunctional/traumatic childhood - but I've had to learn and work on expressing my emotions because my parents never did that very well.

In terms of his depression, well, maybe that is a factor now, but it doesn't change the fact that he needs to learn how to be emotionally intimate if you guys are going to have a shot at staying together happily.

Hi OP, I totally hear you. I agree with trying emotionally focused therapy (EFT). http://www.iceeft.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=79

My husband has struggled with depression, fear of failure, and related problems for such a long time and we are by no means through the woods, but without EFT I am certain we'd be divorced by now. He would completely shut down and shut me out, and he has finally realized how much pain his behavior has caused me. EFT helps you figure out the patterns that keep you from connecting to your spouse in the way we all need.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, no locked doors was a rule in my house, too. These rules never occur in isolation. There's a whole host of parental behaviors and additional boundary-crossing rules that go along with it.

Keep working with counseling, OP. I know how difficult this uncertain stage in your marriage must be right now, but it sounds like you're doing everything you can to fix the marriage, and that your husband is trying to the best of his ability. Maybe if you haven't already started individual counseling for yourself in addition to couples counseling, that might be a helpful support.

Can you tell me some of these behaviors etc. from your own life?

Okay, some of the boundary-crossing issues: no right to privacy relating to any of my belongings, such as my diary. My parents gave it to me as a gift. I hid it in my dresser drawer but never wrote anything private. I knew that they would feel no compunction about searching for it and reading it. And I'm sure they planned to do that when they gave it to me, and that they then did do that.

Also, no right to my own facial expressions. This may sound strange, but this is how it worked. I spent a lot of time practicing in front of the mirror, trying out neutral and cheerful facial expressions. People outside the family and my mirror told me that I was succeeding, but my parents were seeing a whole range of other expressions, none of which they liked. This was a problem because it didn't happen now and then, but, let's say, more days than not.

The biggest privacy issue had to do with their inferences about my feelings, thoughts and character that weren't accurate. This was an ongoing issue regarding my emotional and mental processes. Unfortunately, their inferences were often negative, so that was discouraging. On the positive side, my character was different enough from their very imaginative idea of me that I somehow remained a psychologically healthy person. -So I'm told by qualified professionals, anyway.

Very interesting, thanks. You just revealed something about me and my issues. In my house (OP) we were allowed to lock doors, but I never trusted my mom with things like a journal. She would make this big deal about how she would never invade our privacy, but she is naturally a very nosy person and my aunt would tell me she would do thingst to invade my older brother's privacy (read notes his girlfriend gave him, etc.). I'm sure that screwed me up. In fact my mom is nosy to this day and she will do things like come to visit and clean out my closet without being asked, organize drawers, and sometimes I've been embarrassed as an adult (didn't want her to see a note I left my husband, etc.). So that is VERY interesting that we may both have those issues!

As for the other advice, I greatly appreciate it. We are doing imago therapy which is related to emotionally focused therapy from what I'v read (there are some differences but come from the same basic school of thought). I will ask our therapist about emotionally focused therapy and how it may help. Lately, the last few sessions we have strayed from the imago dialogue and talked about other things but our therapist is good about keeping us on track and when we discuss circumstances, she is good at getting us to say how we felt about something, which is great.

I'm learning a lot from this thread and am very appreciative.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, no locked doors was a rule in my house, too. These rules never occur in isolation. There's a whole host of parental behaviors and additional boundary-crossing rules that go along with it.

Keep working with counseling, OP. I know how difficult this uncertain stage in your marriage must be right now, but it sounds like you're doing everything you can to fix the marriage, and that your husband is trying to the best of his ability. Maybe if you haven't already started individual counseling for yourself in addition to couples counseling, that might be a helpful support.

Can you tell me some of these behaviors etc. from your own life?

Okay, some of the boundary-crossing issues: no right to privacy relating to any of my belongings, such as my diary. My parents gave it to me as a gift. I hid it in my dresser drawer but never wrote anything private. I knew that they would feel no compunction about searching for it and reading it. And I'm sure they planned to do that when they gave it to me, and that they then did do that.

Also, no right to my own facial expressions. This may sound strange, but this is how it worked. I spent a lot of time practicing in front of the mirror, trying out neutral and cheerful facial expressions. People outside the family and my mirror told me that I was succeeding, but my parents were seeing a whole range of other expressions, none of which they liked. This was a problem because it didn't happen now and then, but, let's say, more days than not.

The biggest privacy issue had to do with their inferences about my feelings, thoughts and character that weren't accurate. This was an ongoing issue regarding my emotional and mental processes. Unfortunately, their inferences were often negative, so that was discouraging. On the positive side, my character was different enough from their very imaginative idea of me that I somehow remained a psychologically healthy person. -So I'm told by qualified professionals, anyway.

Take a look at emotionally focused therapy, OP. It focuses on helping partners express their deepest emotions to each other as a way to build intimacy.

And I agree that the inability to express emotions or have emotional intimacy doesn't have to come from a dysfunctional childhood - it is more a matter of whether our parents teach us to express emotions, model that behavior, and make it safe for us to do so. (Take a look at books about emotional IQ.) I'm pretty "normal" - no mood disorders, personality disorders, or dysfunctional/traumatic childhood - but I've had to learn and work on expressing my emotions because my parents never did that very well.

In terms of his depression, well, maybe that is a factor now, but it doesn't change the fact that he needs to learn how to be emotionally intimate if you guys are going to have a shot at staying together happily.

Op I think emotionally unavailable would be how I would describe my own father. If anything, I also tend that direction and my dh is the more communicative. I felt, growing up, that my dad was a guy that owned up to his responsibility to provide for us, but I have very little real relationship with him. It could be a lot worse but it does kind of suck. My mother acknowledges that she provided all the emotional support for the whole family.

Now, all that said, as empty nesters they appear to be having a blast. To my knowledge, divorce and counseling were never on the table. I don't have any advice for you, just sharing. I wish you a lot of luck. Maybe you can convince him to open up for the sake of the kids.

Thanks for posting this, OP - I was in an on-off relationship with a very emotionally unavailable guy for over 7 years, and still occasionally have my doubts about letting him go. It's helpful for me to read that my life probably would have been like what you're describing. My ex is not a bad person, but he can be so cold in certain ways that I was afraid i'd start to feel like a whore for sleeping with a man who wasn't capable of real physical or verbal affection. I worried I'd end up cheating with the first guy who gave me a really great hug, or held my hand. He, too, had no stories about a bad childhood - his folks are still together and seem nice enough - but i do find it interesting that none of his 3 siblings are married either. (though two have long-term girlfriends.) Good luck to you, OP!

Hi - DW here. My DH and I almost have a role reversal- he's the emotionally available one and I'm the one who keeps a lot of emotions to myself, closes down when I'm upset etc. But I've gotten a lot better at communicating, mostly because DH is very patient and calm. I think calmness is a big factor. I think some people who close down are afraid of the other person's reaction when they do open up. Does your husband have a problem expressing all emotions or just negative ones? Did he grow up in a house where negative emotions were not expressed or, if expressed, were met with hostility or ignored? Or not validated (oh stop overreacting, etc.). From what you're saying it sounds like depression could be mixed in, and it sounds like he's working on it, which is a reason to hope. I know, for me at least, I'm so much better at communicating than I was- so people do change. It takes time though and effort on both parties. It sounds like you are both putting in the effort.

Anonymous wrote:Well, no locked doors was a rule in my house, too. These rules never occur in isolation. There's a whole host of parental behaviors and additional boundary-crossing rules that go along with it.

Keep working with counseling, OP. I know how difficult this uncertain stage in your marriage must be right now, but it sounds like you're doing everything you can to fix the marriage, and that your husband is trying to the best of his ability. Maybe if you haven't already started individual counseling for yourself in addition to couples counseling, that might be a helpful support.

Can you tell me some of these behaviors etc. from your own life?

Thanks all. OP here and this has been helpful. We all have issues from our childhood and of course that is part of it, but I like the idea of depression over just childhood, since I don't think his childhood was that screwed up, knowing his family so well and them being so close. He is depressed. He went through a major career thing last year and it bought a lot of issues to light and he actually started therapy, which if you knew him, you'd know was so unlike him - he never believed in that before. So that has been a good step. Once we realized how rough things were with us (because kids can mask a lot of that) we started marriage therapy.

Maybe emotionally unavailable is a strong term. He is checked out but is showing signs of coming around. I ordered a book and am hoping to get some tips on how best to support him. I realize that berating him and crying etc. is not working! Duh - but it was so hard to hide my feelings when we first started uncovering the extent of the problems in our marriage. I had covered up and brushed over so much. He actually admitted in therapy that when he sees me so upset he feels helpless. That was HUGE but after that he totally downplayed it. So I'm trying to remain more calm and I've learned a lot about myself - I realize he can't give me the security I need right now not to feel like he is abandoning me, and I'm more okay with that. I have done a lot of work to realize my self worth, that I am in charge of my own happiness, etc.

He is trying, it is just so scary to see your husband drift away from you. But he is working and that is all I can ask for right now. Just wondering if anyone else went through/is going through this and what helped or didn't.

When my DH is depressed, he's emotionally unavailable. He may be doing/saying all the things he's supposed to but it's apparent to me (even before it is to him) that he's not emotionally there. It's very difficult and has brought us to the brink of divorce. We've had tons of counseling over the years but the only thing that really made a difference is medication. Rather than ascribing it to something in his childhood, you might consider something more mundane like depression.

I think a lot of this has to do with overbearing parents and a fear of being suffocated or absorbed. And one partner often does all of the feeling in the relationship, for both. Backing off and giving space helps a lot, although in the beginning the emotionally distant one might feel this is a test or a trap, it has to be a sincere, consistent decision to give the other space, while still remaining friendly and open to the relationship. very hard work. Likewise, the emotionally distant one has to challenge him/herself to be available even when it feels crummy to do so. counseling is great help.

Well, no locked doors was a rule in my house, too. These rules never occur in isolation. There's a whole host of parental behaviors and additional boundary-crossing rules that go along with it.

Keep working with counseling, OP. I know how difficult this uncertain stage in your marriage must be right now, but it sounds like you're doing everything you can to fix the marriage, and that your husband is trying to the best of his ability. Maybe if you haven't already started individual counseling for yourself in addition to couples counseling, that might be a helpful support.

Anonymous wrote:Having been in relationships like this before, I started discussing with my therapist what the attraction for ME was to these emotionally unavailable men. I suggest you may want to start there. You cannot fix an man in his late 30's that doesn't want to be fixed. I'm not saying give up on the marriage, I'm just saying spend more time on what got you to where you are now. I'm sure the signs were there from the beginning.

Thanks. I don't think it's unfixable because though there were signs, there have also been signs of great connection. He is not the stereotype I have found in my research. My husband can and does cry. He does express himself. He is open to counseling etc. I have done a lot of looking at my patterns, I believe I married my father basically which is common. That said, my mom was very unhappy in her marriage she has revealed to me while her kids were young and my dad was out building his career. He had a horrible temper when he was in his 30s, etc. But over time, he matured into a wonderful man and husband. So I have hope.

I don't think our marriage issues are all my husband's fault. But over time, we have hurt each other and I am more aware of what is going on and my husband seems to have shut down. He is not aware of his emotions. But we've been working and he is getting there, it is a slow process. I have ordered some books which may help and like I said the therapy is helping. He is extremely sensitive which is why I fell in love with him. But that sensitive boy in his 20s has turned into an angrier man now that he has responsiblities, a family, pressure, and years of being in a relationship. So he, I, we, have some work to do.

Having been in relationships like this before, I started discussing with my therapist what the attraction for ME was to these emotionally unavailable men. I suggest you may want to start there. You cannot fix an man in his late 30's that doesn't want to be fixed. I'm not saying give up on the marriage, I'm just saying spend more time on what got you to where you are now. I'm sure the signs were there from the beginning.

He is the textbook case. I have been doing a lot of researching and was scared that he had deep issues, but lately the research I've uncovered and analyzing our situation, I've come to learn that this is more typical - there is a theory that men in society are taught as boys to suppress emotion, be tough, etc.

So not saying all men are like my husband, he is extreme, but just that he may not be all that far gone. We have been together about 12 years, late 30s, two young kids. We have major intimacy issues, he is very distant. Basically said he wanted a divorce, but was willing to go to marriage counseling. We've been working for a few months and things are better, counseling is going well. He has stopped the divorce talk, though it still hangs over us and he is not willing to take it off the table I can tell. But, we take one step forward, two steps back. He is doing some nice things for me, reaching out, but being very careful in his words so in that sense it is a mixed message. I believe he loves me, but he is so lost right now. I believe he is afraid.

He has always been very good at throwing himself into work, hobbies, and friendships, and in that sense I have discovered it was a way of distancing himself from me. It started early on in our relationship, after a couple of years when that infatuation stage ends and the "real love" intimacy phase which is harder is supposed to come in. What is weird is that he doesn't have any obvious childhood issues - I'm sure there are screwed up things from childhood (one example is that he was never allowed to lock doors etc. and I've read that can lead to problems because the child and later adult learns it's not okay to have private thoughts, etc. and can be damaging) but overall his parents are loving, etc. His dad was a tough disciplinarian I know that.