Anonymous
07/02/2012 12:20
Subject: College Gardens Chinese immersion
Anonymous wrote: I love the school. I think it has a good community. I do think there is a divide between CI and Non-CI families, largely due to RM ES #5. I don't really care whether CI stays or goes, but I want CGES to be less over-crowded.
It's all relative, folks. Chinese immersion in MoCo is a dream compared to DC's Yu Ying - we switched from the latter. When I hear parents complain that there's a divide between Chinese and non-Chinese families, and CI and non-CI families, at the school, I chuckle to myself because at least you HAVE Chinese and Chinese-minded non-Chinese families to create the alleged divides. YY has very few, and no Chinese administrators. There, parents, overwhelmingly AA and white, were much less interested in Chinese and Chinese culture than in escaping lousy neighborhood schools. Perhaps because we haven't been spoiled by MoCo schools yet, we think the program is terrific, not perfect, but inspiring none the less.
Anonymous
06/29/2012 19:50
Subject: Re:College Gardens Chinese immersion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Potomac Elementary Chinese Immersion parent here. When DC's where in 3rd grade their math grades started to fall. We figured out that with DS the problem was that he understand the concepts in English but didn't understand enough of the Chinese to follow along. With DD we found out that she was very comfortable with Chinese but that she basically had no understanding of math concepts. Sadly, we pulled both of them out and now they are doing well in both math (taught in English) and Chinese (taught as a language, not immersion). That said, some kids do well in all subjects in the immersion program. Just be vigilant.
If that is true, that is a worrisome indictment of either our children or our approach to learning in English-speaking America. Although anectodal, every story I have ever heard of of Asian immigrants coming to the United States is that although the children flounder at first in school due to language difficulties, the one subject they still excel at is math -- because you are dealing in concepts that transcend language -- or that they just have such a greater depth in math education in Asia at the elementary school level that it puts us to shame?
I find it a worrisome attitude that we short-sell ourselves. Time and again I always hear how difficult Chinese is and that is the excuse why either ex-pats refuse to enroll children in Chinese classes/schools in places like Hong Kong or Singapore or China, or at least withdraw them at the first sign of trouble (grades fall). Yet Hong Kong/Chinese/Singaporean children learn English in droves. And when they enter English environments, either through immigration or what not, while they experience an initial, temporary setback (falling grades in subjects other than math), in the long run they overcome them and end up doing fine, if not better than the "natives".
I'm not saying that MDPS is the same situation, since the local society is obviously not Chinese, so there are much greater hurdles to overcome. Or maybe your child really is just a special situation. But I find just that speaking to English-speaking parents in general that there is still a subliminal strain of this attitude that exoticizes Chinese as just too difficult that leads to abandonment. Is the Chinese race inherently intellectually superior that their children can learn Chinese AND English AND Math successfully but we must be vigilant about protecting ours from having to go through the agony of learning Chinese if it starts "becoming" too "difficult"? I never get the sense from Chinese-speaking parents either here or in China that they expect anything less than that their children should and can master both Chinese and English, or at least be very functional in the latter.
English is so dominant still in the world, we probably have the luxury of at least another generation to try to solve this problem of short-shrifting foreign languages in this country. But the change can come quickly and blindside us if we aren't careful. If there is anything we can learn from the Chinese it's that it's dangerous to think of ourselves as the center of the universe and that foreign ideas and concepts, though useful and important, are nonetheless still secondary to Chinese (or in our case, American) traditional learning. In 1790 China was still the apex civilization in the world and shoo-ed away the British envoys that tried to open China up to trade. By 1839, China was humiliated in the Opium War by the same British and began its painful, inexorable decline relative to the West, ending up in a basket case that they are now just finally crawling back out of.
I don't even understand what you are saying here... In China they don't learn English in school through immersion. Nor do "Americans" routinely immigrate to China and be forced to learn Chinese. You are talking apples to oranges.
Anonymous
06/29/2012 17:57
Subject: Re:College Gardens Chinese immersion
Anonymous wrote:Potomac Elementary Chinese Immersion parent here. When DC's where in 3rd grade their math grades started to fall. We figured out that with DS the problem was that he understand the concepts in English but didn't understand enough of the Chinese to follow along. With DD we found out that she was very comfortable with Chinese but that she basically had no understanding of math concepts. Sadly, we pulled both of them out and now they are doing well in both math (taught in English) and Chinese (taught as a language, not immersion). That said, some kids do well in all subjects in the immersion program. Just be vigilant.
If that is true, that is a worrisome indictment of either our children or our approach to learning in English-speaking America. Although anectodal, every story I have ever heard of of Asian immigrants coming to the United States is that although the children flounder at first in school due to language difficulties, the one subject they still excel at is math -- because you are dealing in concepts that transcend language -- or that they just have such a greater depth in math education in Asia at the elementary school level that it puts us to shame?
I find it a worrisome attitude that we short-sell ourselves. Time and again I always hear how difficult Chinese is and that is the excuse why either ex-pats refuse to enroll children in Chinese classes/schools in places like Hong Kong or Singapore or China, or at least withdraw them at the first sign of trouble (grades fall). Yet Hong Kong/Chinese/Singaporean children learn English in droves. And when they enter English environments, either through immigration or what not, while they experience an initial, temporary setback (falling grades in subjects other than math), in the long run they overcome them and end up doing fine, if not better than the "natives".
I'm not saying that MDPS is the same situation, since the local society is obviously not Chinese, so there are much greater hurdles to overcome. Or maybe your child really is just a special situation. But I find just that speaking to English-speaking parents in general that there is still a subliminal strain of this attitude that exoticizes Chinese as just too difficult that leads to abandonment. Is the Chinese race inherently intellectually superior that their children can learn Chinese AND English AND Math successfully but we must be vigilant about protecting ours from having to go through the agony of learning Chinese if it starts "becoming" too "difficult"? I never get the sense from Chinese-speaking parents either here or in China that they expect anything less than that their children should and can master both Chinese and English, or at least be very functional in the latter.
English is so dominant still in the world, we probably have the luxury of at least another generation to try to solve this problem of short-shrifting foreign languages in this country. But the change can come quickly and blindside us if we aren't careful. If there is anything we can learn from the Chinese it's that it's dangerous to think of ourselves as the center of the universe and that foreign ideas and concepts, though useful and important, are nonetheless still secondary to Chinese (or in our case, American) traditional learning. In 1790 China was still the apex civilization in the world and shoo-ed away the British envoys that tried to open China up to trade. By 1839, China was humiliated in the Opium War by the same British and began its painful, inexorable decline relative to the West, ending up in a basket case that they are now just finally crawling back out of.
Anonymous
05/01/2012 15:02
Subject: College Gardens Chinese immersion
Thanks, everyone! You've given us a lot to think about and discuss with the school. 15:07 - you're right about the before care! I was getting confused with all the different variations of possible schedules in my head. We would need before care near us, not at the school.
19:21 - that had not occurred to me, so thank you for bringing that up. So much to consider!
19:21 - that had not occurred to me, so thank you for bringing that up. So much to consider!
Anonymous
04/30/2012 19:56
Subject: College Gardens Chinese immersion
Also keep in mind that to continue to take Chinese in MS, you have to attend Hoover MS in Potomac and there is no transportation provided.
Anonymous
04/30/2012 19:21
Subject: Re:College Gardens Chinese immersion
Potomac Elementary Chinese Immersion parent here. When DC's where in 3rd grade their math grades started to fall. We figured out that with DS the problem was that he understand the concepts in English but didn't understand enough of the Chinese to follow along. With DD we found out that she was very comfortable with Chinese but that she basically had no understanding of math concepts. Sadly, we pulled both of them out and now they are doing well in both math (taught in English) and Chinese (taught as a language, not immersion). That said, some kids do well in all subjects in the immersion program. Just be vigilant.
Anonymous
04/30/2012 15:07
Subject: College Gardens Chinese immersion
If you use the bus, the bus will arrive at the school time. You will not need before-care - unless you are referring to something close to your home. I'm not really clear on the before-care intentions.
You should check with the school regarding a sporadic bus schedule. Maybe if you can set it in stone like "Every Wednesday" or "Every Tuesday & Thursday." If there are other kids being picked up at your location, it wouldn't be a big deal, but if the bus driver is going to your location to pick up only your child and the child isn't there most of the time - or only random days - I could see someone, somewhere getting annoyed (from the bus driver to the MCPS busing dept.)
Oh, and congrats on being selected in the lottery. I know it's highly competitive.
Do you have other (younger) children? They are automatically "in" if your first is in the program.
You should check with the school regarding a sporadic bus schedule. Maybe if you can set it in stone like "Every Wednesday" or "Every Tuesday & Thursday." If there are other kids being picked up at your location, it wouldn't be a big deal, but if the bus driver is going to your location to pick up only your child and the child isn't there most of the time - or only random days - I could see someone, somewhere getting annoyed (from the bus driver to the MCPS busing dept.)
Oh, and congrats on being selected in the lottery. I know it's highly competitive.
Do you have other (younger) children? They are automatically "in" if your first is in the program.
Anonymous
04/30/2012 15:05
Subject: College Gardens Chinese immersion
You will have to use before care at the school the bus leaves from not CGES. The bus to CGES will only get there in time for school. I would ask how long the CI teachers (Chinese portion) have been with the school. They have had difficulty finding and keeping staff..but that maybe resolved now that the program have been around for 6 (?) years. I would also ask how much time the kids really get in Chinese...Are the math worksheets in Chinese?
Anonymous
04/30/2012 14:47
Subject: College Gardens Chinese immersion
Thanks, PPs, for the info about class size. To 11:55/13:37, I plan on driving DC to school most days, but there will likely be one or two days a week when we will be using the bus. My spouse will do the pick-ups as he works in Rockville close by, so no after-care will be necessary. But on the day(s) we use the bus, we may need before-care.
We plan on speaking further with the school and CI staff before making this decision, but I do appreciate all the feedback so far.
We plan on speaking further with the school and CI staff before making this decision, but I do appreciate all the feedback so far.
Anonymous
04/30/2012 13:37
Subject: College Gardens Chinese immersion
11:55 here.
I think class size is the MCPS standard 25 students in K and 26 in 1st grade. One child gets the lottery in 1st grade -- or N+1 children (where N is the number who drop out after K), usually not many. As PP said, you have to test in after that, which doesn't really happen.
My child is friends with CI kids who are involved in scouts. But not friends to the point where we have these kids in our house or they hang out on the playground at recess. More like "hey neighbors" (the people you say "hey" to, but never really get super-close to). Of course, it's better to be a "hey neighbor" than a nothing.
As PP said, I doubt PYP will exist at the new school.
Will you be driving the child to school? What about after-care? (after-care options do exist for working parents... which also gives additional socialization for your child.) Or will the child be on the bus both ways? A 20-minute car ride does NOT equal 20 minutes on the bus. The MCPS bus may pick up at location 1, then go to location 2 and 3, then finally the destination school (at least this is how the busing works according to a mom of a child at Lucy Barnsley HGC). But you should try to talk to someone who's much more informed about this CI program and busing and not go on my assumptions/hearsay.
I love the school. I think it has a good community. I do think there is a divide between CI and Non-CI families, largely due to RM ES #5. I don't really care whether CI stays or goes, but I want CGES to be less over-crowded. At this point, RM ES #5 won't help my child. It seems like, from some of last year's PTA meetings, that some of the CI parents are doing CI more for the school and less for the CI program, which I think is poor logic on behalf of the parents.
I think class size is the MCPS standard 25 students in K and 26 in 1st grade. One child gets the lottery in 1st grade -- or N+1 children (where N is the number who drop out after K), usually not many. As PP said, you have to test in after that, which doesn't really happen.
My child is friends with CI kids who are involved in scouts. But not friends to the point where we have these kids in our house or they hang out on the playground at recess. More like "hey neighbors" (the people you say "hey" to, but never really get super-close to). Of course, it's better to be a "hey neighbor" than a nothing.
As PP said, I doubt PYP will exist at the new school.
Will you be driving the child to school? What about after-care? (after-care options do exist for working parents... which also gives additional socialization for your child.) Or will the child be on the bus both ways? A 20-minute car ride does NOT equal 20 minutes on the bus. The MCPS bus may pick up at location 1, then go to location 2 and 3, then finally the destination school (at least this is how the busing works according to a mom of a child at Lucy Barnsley HGC). But you should try to talk to someone who's much more informed about this CI program and busing and not go on my assumptions/hearsay.
I love the school. I think it has a good community. I do think there is a divide between CI and Non-CI families, largely due to RM ES #5. I don't really care whether CI stays or goes, but I want CGES to be less over-crowded. At this point, RM ES #5 won't help my child. It seems like, from some of last year's PTA meetings, that some of the CI parents are doing CI more for the school and less for the CI program, which I think is poor logic on behalf of the parents.
Anonymous
04/30/2012 12:52
Subject: College Gardens Chinese immersion
Actually, the class isze might start out large but it quickly becomes smaller because very few kids can test in to the program (prior Chinese experience is required after 1st grade)...and families move and make other choices. As a non_CI family we have been somewhat jealous of the smaller class sizes in CI in the later years. By 4 and 5 the classes are combined. I doubt the IB program will exist at the hypothetical new school. MCPS is no longer funding PYP programs. I assume the kids socialize but obviously distance can make things harder. If your child has friends on the bus, they will probably live near you.
Anonymous
04/30/2012 12:44
Subject: College Gardens Chinese immersion
Thanks for your response, PP. This is OP. I can support Chinese at home as my spouse is Chinese and speaks the language. Our main concerns are the larger class size in the CI class compared to our home school, and the logistics of getting to and from school. While it won't be an hour of bus ride each way for us (more like 20 min), it'll be longer than the 5 min drive that we now have from our home school.
Since, as you said, the kids primarily socialize with their classmates at recess, do you find that these friendships also extend to outside the school? It is also a concern to us that DC would likely have few or no school friends in our own neighborhood or community should he enroll in the CI program.
We do really like the facility at CGES, but our primary goal is the CI program. We also like it that the school is IB. Do you know if the CI program will maintain this status if/when it moves?
Since, as you said, the kids primarily socialize with their classmates at recess, do you find that these friendships also extend to outside the school? It is also a concern to us that DC would likely have few or no school friends in our own neighborhood or community should he enroll in the CI program.
We do really like the facility at CGES, but our primary goal is the CI program. We also like it that the school is IB. Do you know if the CI program will maintain this status if/when it moves?
Anonymous
04/30/2012 11:55
Subject: College Gardens Chinese immersion
My child is at CGES, but not in CI.
How long is your expected bus ride? I know some kids who are on the bus an hour EACH way.
Can you support Chinese at home? (Half of the day IS in Chinese. If my child were learning math in Chinese, I would not be able to discern if the trouble he is having is due to a language/comprehension issue or a math issue.)
It's my observation that the kids don't really intermingle with others outside of CI that much at recess. When my child was in K and 1st, the children mainly played with their own classmates at recess. Now in 2nd grade, they seem to expand their recess circle more, but still do have a "core" group based from their own classroom.
CI is slated to move to RM ES #5 when that school is built (assuming it really happens). So if your goal is to go to that particular school because you like the facility or location, you may not be there forever. But if your goal is for the program, you'll always be in the program.
Kids begin dropping out at 4th grade more rapidly than the earlier grades.
How long is your expected bus ride? I know some kids who are on the bus an hour EACH way.
Can you support Chinese at home? (Half of the day IS in Chinese. If my child were learning math in Chinese, I would not be able to discern if the trouble he is having is due to a language/comprehension issue or a math issue.)
It's my observation that the kids don't really intermingle with others outside of CI that much at recess. When my child was in K and 1st, the children mainly played with their own classmates at recess. Now in 2nd grade, they seem to expand their recess circle more, but still do have a "core" group based from their own classroom.
CI is slated to move to RM ES #5 when that school is built (assuming it really happens). So if your goal is to go to that particular school because you like the facility or location, you may not be there forever. But if your goal is for the program, you'll always be in the program.
Kids begin dropping out at 4th grade more rapidly than the earlier grades.
Anonymous
04/30/2012 09:47
Subject: College Gardens Chinese immersion
Similar to the OP of the Spanish immersion program...we got a spot and are weighing the pros and cons. Would love to hear from those who are making the same decision or are in the program.