Anonymous wrote:What do you think is behind this? What is he so angry about? Why does he not think you are worth his respect?

When you dig deep, most really angry, rude kids have a story to tell - their sense of injustice / entitlement comes from somewhere.

Seeing as he was sent away to boarding school he may not feel that he is part of the family does he feel that he has been singled out as the problem child and that everyone else is out to make him miserable. he may feel he has never fit into the family given it sounds like the rest of you all get along great and have few problems - he may have felt different and excluded in a way since he was young. his behavior may be a defense, a protective wall to push everyone away and to show he doesn't care so he can act tough - all as bravado for feeling unwanted or like a misfit.

I think you need to be firmer with your limits / boundaries and more consistent with your consequences. Especially if he is going to live at home for the next year. Is there anyone in the family / extended family he has more respect for? Or a teacher or other adult? Do you see signs of antisocial personality stuff - can he be empathetic?

What are his strengths?

Sometimes it comes from mental illness or chemical imbalances - not from bad parenting.

I guess I don't see it as "kicking him out". I think the expectation all along should have been when he turned 18 that he would move on to independent living - either at college or on his own. If he wants to choose the military, let him. If not, tell him your expectation that he find his own place to live and make no exceptions. Part of the issue you are having is "say what you mean, and mean what you say". My guess is you have told him before you aren't going to give him rides anywhere but then you back down and do it when it is convenient. I would have told him no rides and made no exception. At 17 he can figure it out.

Like the attorney said, give him the best birthday present ever and kick him out the day of his birthday. Until that happens, support him in the decision of joining the army. When it's time for him to go, at 18, he will be prepared for the army or face life on the streets. He will be an adult and need to make adult decisions. Stop catering to him. Don't drive him anywhere. Give him a bus pass. He hits the dad, call the police. Doesn't go to school, let him flunk.

What do you think is behind this? What is he so angry about? Why does he not think you are worth his respect?

When you dig deep, most really angry, rude kids have a story to tell - their sense of injustice / entitlement comes from somewhere.

Seeing as he was sent away to boarding school he may not feel that he is part of the family does he feel that he has been singled out as the problem child and that everyone else is out to make him miserable. he may feel he has never fit into the family given it sounds like the rest of you all get along great and have few problems - he may have felt different and excluded in a way since he was young. his behavior may be a defense, a protective wall to push everyone away and to show he doesn't care so he can act tough - all as bravado for feeling unwanted or like a misfit.

I think you need to be firmer with your limits / boundaries and more consistent with your consequences. Especially if he is going to live at home for the next year. Is there anyone in the family / extended family he has more respect for? Or a teacher or other adult? Do you see signs of antisocial personality stuff - can he be empathetic?

What are his strengths?

Tough love now to save him from himself. No tough love now will develop into more trouble later. He will truly be beyond your help then.

If you let him stay after he turns 18, have him pay rent (you can keep this and invest it for him without telling him about it and maybe years from now when he is ready to purchase home, you can give it back to him with interest to help with a down payment) and be responsible for household chores. He can't just live there without responsibilities.

OP,

I am a criminal defense attorney and I love kids like your son. I can usually keep a kid like him out of serious trouble with the law until their early to mid twenties. And by then their families have paid me tens of thousands of dollars in fees. I have a several families that I can set my watch by. Usually at some point either the mom or the dad will ask me if I think they could something differently. I tell them all the same thing. Put them out of the house and stop supporting them. No money. No cell phone. No car. No gas card. No family credit card. Nothing. Change the locks and give him a trespass notice. Show your two younger kids that you value them and put him out on his 18th birthday literally ready or not.

Let him try to get into the military. He will either get in and succeed, get in and flunk out or be rejected and left to face the consequences of his behavior. Ask him to join the military or move out. Everything you have done and sacrificed has not changed him. Good Luck to you. Your other kids need some peace. It is time to let him be an adult and be responsible for his actions.

OP, My stepson was similar to this, and my DH had so much guilt over the divorce and ensuing custody battle that he kept trying to "save" his son into his early 20's. You know what eventually worked? Letting him hit bottom. I think you have put a lot into showing your son that you love and care for him, but at this point, he is capable of making choices with consequences you can't save him from (being busted for drugs, getting involved with shady friends, being unemployable without a diploma, risky sexual behavior and possible pregnancy or STDs). The best thing you can do is to set some limits that require something of him, and let him hit rock bottom now, while he's likely to get off easier as a young man with no serious record, rather than letting little things build up so that when he eventually screws up, they throw the book at him.

So I agree with the advice of saying: We will provide you with a bed to sleep in and food to eat. If you want to use the house phone for local calls, you may. If you want to watch TV in the family room, you may, provided you are courteous to others in the family room. If you want to use the family computer, you may, provided you are a courteous user, and respectful of the shared space. If you want new clothes, a cell phone, food other than what we provide, your own computer or tv, or anything else, you can get a job and pay for it. If you need a way to get to the job, we will provide a bicycle and a map of the bus/Metro system. If you are physically aggressive with any member of this family for any reason, you will not be welcome in our home for a period of 6 months, at least.

Let him face the real consequences, and he will either make better choices, or continue to make terrible choices, but without the power to hurt your younger kids.

I agree with the PP Dad. The military is for him. He actually is the exact type of boy/man who does really well in that environment.

Hang in there.

Once he is 18, put him out. Change the locks. Btdt. It hurts but it also works.

Dad here, with some experience in dealing with boys who get out of line.

I have two thoughts. First, he is past you. You're not getting through to him, and it does not sound like you're going to. He's not engaging with you, so don't spend all of your time trying to.

Second, I would strongly encourage you to let him, and help him, explore military service. Every single problem you list is something that the armed forces has dealt with, and will continue to deal with, every time the recruits get off the bus for basic training. Simply put, what they do is take boys like your son and turn them into men.

One note: he has to be clean. Automatic deal breaker--don't let him talk to a recruiter if he's using.

OP, just want to add my voice and say that you've really invested a lot. I am impressed and sorry it hasn't worked yet. This is not from my personal experience, but someone I know did this with her then 16 year old and it worked. She removed everything from him except a bed, lamp and desk. She gave him food and clothes. No rides, no gifts, no electronics, no screens, no telephone privileges, etc. I imagine it was total hell for her and the rest of,the family, but she's not sorry she did it because itmturned her son around. He ended up going to nursing school and from what she says, a very productive adult.

OP it is not a reflection on you that your son is so unmanageable. I don't care what anyone says, some kids just are. I have a cousin whose behavior, IMO, hastened my aunt's death from lung cancer. Before her death, he voluntarily moved out of her house rather than apologize for being disrespectful. He didn't speak to her for months until the week she passed. Then at the hospital and again at the funeral he put on such a spectacle you would have thought she was the most important thing in his world (maybe that was the point). It got so bad he had to be led out of the funeral hall twice, and I thought he was going to jump into her grave after the coffin.

He moved in with my mother and proceeded to wage a campaign of pettiness for no reason against my stepfather (who is the sort of man who'd give you his last dollar), all while refusing to finish HS or get a job. My mother finally realized it was going to be him or her marriage (and her sanity) and gave him the insurance money from my aunt's policy and asked him to leave.

All that said, you have 2 other children to worry about. Do what you have to do to protect your family. I'm so sorry that in your case, the threat happens to be their brother.

I'm not sure what you can do. You've done as much as you can. It seems it is up to him to change his views. Sometimes you have to let them go and experience the world of hard knocks to really learn what life is about and realize they are responsible for their actions. Good luck.

I like this board. The parents who post here have a lot of good things to say from every side of the fence. I need advice, as much as I can get. Things are getting pretty complicated in our house. In a nutshell, we are a house of 2 parents and three kids. We are both lawyers, but I stopped working when the kids were small to spend more time in the home. We have a solid as a rock marriage with mutual respect, very little turmoil. Our two younger kids (boy and girl) are both in high school and doing well and pretty easy going, functional kids.

Our 17 year old son is the center of our issue. He has had issues since middle school. He was diagnosed with ADHD and Oppositional Behavior at age 13, but has never been compliant about any medications. He has had issues with aggression and anger at home and at school. He has been in therapy with different psychiatrists and psychologists since age 13. He tries to manipulate every therapist he sees and typically refuses to go to therapy. He has gone to two boarding schools (he was kicked out of one). He has also been to wilderness therapy. There have been issues with some drugs (we drug test now). He has been in some juvenile trouble and is currently on probation.

When he is in our home he is rude and non-compliant about every single issue. He acts like he is entitled to so much even though we have tried hard throughout his life to set limits and not indulge him. We all walk on eggshells around him, waiting for him to explode. He expects us to wait on him (we don't). Give him rides everywhere (we will try to help him out when he is pleasant). He laughs at our curfews, etc. He steals from us and has destroyed things in our home. He has threatened me for speaking to other mothers. I am afraid that he would hurt me or his siblings. He's already hit his father before.

Our immediate issue is this. He turns 18 in a few months, but will not graduate high school until next year (best case). He has told us that he refuses to go to summer school to catch up or go back to boarding school to finish high school. He expects to live in our home, come and go as he pleases, follow no rules, not help out and take his time figuring out how he's going to finish high school, etc. He is saying that he wants to go into the military. We know that we cannot allow his siblings to live in the kind of war zone they have been living in. Does anyone out there have any ideas or insights about how to handle a kid who will be an "adult", but cannot take care of himself. When he turns 18, should we ask him to leave? I fear that things with him will just get wilder than they already have been.

We have tried hard to love and support him. We are not perfect parents and the last few years have worn us out. I am embarrassed that we have turned out to be such ineffective parents for him. We have tried so hard. We are running out of ideas.