Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anyone can get tested for the centers, all you had to do was apply. You don't even have had to be selected as gifted in 2nd grade to apply to the HGC Centers.

Yes. Second graders who did well in Global Screening are recommended to apply. Those who don't get recommended get assigned to above the grade classes in reading and math.

No. Even if you didn't do well in the global screening, you could apply to the HGC and take the test that was offered in January. You may or may not be reccomended by your home school to apply (they don't have to reccomend anyone, it's up to the student's families to take the step of completing the application, then the homeschool has steps to complete, then the test... the the decision.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:anyone can get tested for the centers, all you had to do was apply. You don't even have had to be selected as gifted in 2nd grade to apply to the HGC Centers.

Yes. Second graders who did well in Global Screening are recommended to apply. Those who don't get recommended get assigned to above the grade classes in reading and math.

Students to HGC are selected based on a selection process and not based on recommendation from 2nd grade global selection. Anyone who applies (GT identified or not) must go through the same selection processes.

Anonymous wrote:anyone can get tested for the centers, all you had to do was apply. You don't even have had to be selected as gifted in 2nd grade to apply to the HGC Centers.

Yes. Second graders who did well in Global Screening are recommended to apply. Those who don't get recommended get assigned to above the grade classes in reading and math.

anyone can get tested for the centers, all you had to do was apply. You don't even have had to be selected as gifted in 2nd grade to apply to the HGC Centers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, there are highly able kids who are rotting in regular school. There are gifted children who have to stay in the regular school because of a lack of seats or they chose not to go to a HGC/magnet. But tomorrow's forum is on GT. If we want to talk about GT kids left in the regular classroom for whatever reason--DIFFERENTIATION WONT CUT IT. HOMOGENEOUS GROUPING WONT CUT IT-because there aren't enough of them in a given school.

For the students who come in well prepared from the eastern part or the western part of the counties, in school homogeneous grouping may work. But that is another issue, right?

GT in MCPS means only one and one thing, please try to understand that. This is not GT defined in the world, NAGC, or VA, or NC. We must understand the definition before starting to debate. GT in MCPS means all the kids who are identified as such in 2nd grade. Highly gifted kids left in local school are a part of this GT population and in their case the lack of appropriate acceleration is substantially visible. So, let us ask to change the local schools’ offering.

Homogeneous or ability grouping will work if we do not worry about age based tracking. Schools should be able to provide various classes, where students enter based on ability assessment and exit based on learning. This is what we must ask for the good of all kids.

This is really not true. MCPS does have GT as "defined in the world, NAGC, or VA." It is the kids they select for testing for centers. The others according to MCPS are kinda ready for above the grade English and math. MCPS has clearly said that. Highly gifted kids left in the regular classroom in each school are a very small number. The only way to take care of their needs is to increase the number of seats in centers and magnets and/or create new centers and magnets. The new rule in Maryland requires these kids get the services outside the school.

Where does it say that MCPS defines GT as those coming well prepared?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, there are highly morrow's forum is on GT. If we want to talk about GT kids left in the regular classroom for whatever reason--DIFFERENTIATION WONT CUT IT. HOMOGENEOUS GROUPING WONT CUT IT-because there aren't enough of them in a given school.

For the students who come in well prepared from the eastern part or the western part of the counties, in school homogeneous grouping may work. But that is another issue, right?

able kids who are rotting in regular school. There are gifted children who have to stay in the regular school because of a lack of seats or they chose not to go to a HGC/magnet. But to

GT in MCPS means only one and one thing, please try to understand that. This is not GT defined in the world, NAGC, or VA, or NC. We must understand the definition before starting to debate. GT in MCPS means all the kids who are identified as such in 2nd grade. Highly gifted kids left in local school are a part of this GT population and in their case the lack of appropriate acceleration is substantially visible. So, let us ask to change the local schools’ offering.

Homogeneous or ability grouping will work if we do not worry about age based tracking. Schools should be able to provide various classes, where students enter based on ability assessment and exit based on learning. This is what we must ask for the good of all kids.

+1
9:55 here - yeah, that's what I meant...

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, there are highly able kids who are rotting in regular school. There are gifted children who have to stay in the regular school because of a lack of seats or they chose not to go to a HGC/magnet. But tomorrow's forum is on GT. If we want to talk about GT kids left in the regular classroom for whatever reason--DIFFERENTIATION WONT CUT IT. HOMOGENEOUS GROUPING WONT CUT IT-because there aren't enough of them in a given school.

For the students who come in well prepared from the eastern part or the western part of the counties, in school homogeneous grouping may work. But that is another issue, right?

GT in MCPS means only one and one thing, please try to understand that. This is not GT defined in the world, NAGC, or VA, or NC. We must understand the definition before starting to debate. GT in MCPS means all the kids who are identified as such in 2nd grade. Highly gifted kids left in local school are a part of this GT population and in their case the lack of appropriate acceleration is substantially visible. So, let us ask to change the local schools’ offering.

Homogeneous or ability grouping will work if we do not worry about age based tracking. Schools should be able to provide various classes, where students enter based on ability assessment and exit based on learning. This is what we must ask for the good of all kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Thursday meeting is about GT education. That is the kids that get selected for magnets and stuff--even if they don't accept it.

09:32 is trying to sneak in a discussion about kids in the regular classroom claiming it is the "real GT."

I don't think it is the real GT. It may be a real issue but it isn't "real GT." Is 09:32 trying to get MCPS to accept that anyone who does not get selected for GT programs outside the schools if gifted?

There are lots and lots of kids who apply to magnets who are not accepted and many, many of those who are not accepted are highly-able and qualified to perform at the magnet level. The TPMS magnet accepts 125 kids (25 slots reserved for in-boundary students). This year, 800+ applied. Do you really think that ALL of those not accepted are not qualified? How about those who tested, on the entrance exam, one point below the cutoff? How about kids from a given school, from which there were too many applicants (TPMS has said publicly that they don't want to take too many applicants from one school)? How about HGC kids who don't quite make it (ditto, they don't take too many HGC kids)?

The point is, in the regular classroom, especially in the eastern part of MoCo, there are lots of highly-able kids who NEED differentiation, who NEED the challenge of enriched instruction. They need that as much as low-performing students need extra help - and under state law, they are entitled to it.

Yes, there are highly able kids who are rotting in regular school. There are gifted children who have to stay in the regular school because of a lack of seats or they chose not to go to a HGC/magnet. But tomorrow's forum is on GT. If we want to talk about GT kids left in the regular classroom for whatever reason--DIFFERENTIATION WONT CUT IT. HOMOGENEOUS GROUPING WONT CUT IT-because there aren't enough of them in a given school.

For the students who come in well prepared from the eastern part or the western part of the counties, in school homogeneous grouping may work. But that is another issue, right?

Anonymous wrote:Using round numbers:

MCPS has 146,000 students.

If you address the top 5% of kids, that's about 7000 kids who should have access to a pretty high level of acceleration.

My back of the envelope calculation shows that there are less than 1000 children currently served by magnet programs.

Even if you go with a very conservative 2%, that's still about 3000 kids -- well over the current number of magnet slots.

So either you suggest that MCPS increase magnets seven-fold (not a likely proposition) or you push for more enrichment in home schools, more differentiated classrooms, etc.

I have one kid in a magnet who has been extremely well served. I have another kid who's been waitlisted twice. He is bored, miserable, unchallenged, and doesn't presently have access to any enriched or more challenging material. What do we say to him -- tough luck?

Add to this the fact that magnets are sometimes impractable for a variety of reasons ... what do you say to those kids? Do they not have a right to an appropriate public education?

I agree with every word in this post.

We have two kids in magnets, and were overly invested in our kids getting into a MS magnet in particular, because of our abysmal home middle school. From all reports, highly-able kids at that MS are bored, miserable, unchallenged, and without access to any enriched or more challenging material.

I am relieved that my kids keep making it into magnets, but angry that we must be so invested in that process because of our local school situation. It is not right. It is not acceptable that so many kids are (essentially) told, "tough luck."

Anonymous wrote:The Thursday meeting is about GT education. That is the kids that get selected for magnets and stuff--even if they don't accept it.

09:32 is trying to sneak in a discussion about kids in the regular classroom claiming it is the "real GT."

I don't think it is the real GT. It may be a real issue but it isn't "real GT." Is 09:32 trying to get MCPS to accept that anyone who does not get selected for GT programs outside the schools if gifted?

There are lots and lots of kids who apply to magnets who are not accepted and many, many of those who are not accepted are highly-able and qualified to perform at the magnet level. The TPMS magnet accepts 125 kids (25 slots reserved for in-boundary students). This year, 800+ applied. Do you really think that ALL of those not accepted are not qualified? How about those who tested, on the entrance exam, one point below the cutoff? How about kids from a given school, from which there were too many applicants (TPMS has said publicly that they don't want to take too many applicants from one school)? How about HGC kids who don't quite make it (ditto, they don't take too many HGC kids)?

The point is, in the regular classroom, especially in the eastern part of MoCo, there are lots of highly-able kids who NEED differentiation, who NEED the challenge of enriched instruction. They need that as much as low-performing students need extra help - and under state law, they are entitled to it.

Using round numbers:

MCPS has 146,000 students.

If you address the top 5% of kids, that's about 7000 kids who should have access to a pretty high level of acceleration.

My back of the envelope calculation shows that there are less than 1000 children currently served by magnet programs.

Even if you go with a very conservative 2%, that's still about 3000 kids -- well over the current number of magnet slots.

So either you suggest that MCPS increase magnets seven-fold (not a likely proposition) or you push for more enrichment in home schools, more differentiated classrooms, etc.

I have one kid in a magnet who has been extremely well served. I have another kid who's been waitlisted twice. He is bored, miserable, unchallenged, and doesn't presently have access to any enriched or more challenging material. What do we say to him -- tough luck?

Add to this the fact that magnets are sometimes impractable for a variety of reasons ... what do you say to those kids? Do they not have a right to an appropriate public education?

Not all GT kids will choose to go to the centers. Heck, not all of them will even be accepted. I think differentiation and how it is applied is a relevent issue for those interested in GT issues.

(When I was at the meeting for parents interested in hearing about the elementary HGC's at Northwest this past fall, they did discuss the quantity of spots vs. the interest, and how kids are chosen. Of course it's ability, but also whose needs weren't being met at the home school. With increased differentiation, that number will go up. They also made a point of explaining that there were many factors that didn't have much to do with our kids as individuals (applicants to a particular center vs. spots - some centers might be more competitive than others, they also don't want to take too many kids from a elementary school lest it mess with class sizes too much and they lose a teacher). So kids could be denied a spot, and be perfectly qualified and benefit, and then stay in the home school and differentiation could be hurtful.

Also, what of the kids who for whatever reason, choose not to go?

HGC's and magnets shouldn't be the only solution to challenging all students. I don't know the answer - classes that are more sorted by ability? pullouts for more challenging work, more science and social studies for those that get the reading and math the kids are taught ad infinitum?

But I think HGC's and magnets being the only solution or the right solution shouldn't be assumed.

The Thursday meeting is about GT education. That is the kids that get selected for magnets and stuff--even if they don't accept it.

09:32 is trying to sneak in a discussion about kids in the regular classroom claiming it is the "real GT."

I don't think it is the real GT. It may be a real issue but it isn't "real GT." Is 09:32 trying to get MCPS to accept that anyone who does not get selected for GT programs outside the schools if gifted?

The real important issue at Thursdays is meeting is gifted and talented education. That is the group of students MCPS serves through magnets, highly gifted centers, and such.

09:32 is talking about regular classroom instruction. MoCo has been rolling out Curriculum 2.0 and differentiated instruction at a clip. Yes, that should be discussed too. But I don't think you should hold the GT forum hostage to discussing differentiation. It is a problem in all parts of the county and it must be addressed for all of us.

I think MCPS should have a forum on differentiation and no one should hold GT hostage to advance your interests.

Unfortunately, the discussions on this board have degenerated a bit into "what is the definition of GT" and "what kind of wackos are posting on diferent forums." This is distracting us from the real, important issue that will be discussed at Thursday night's meeting.

While we bicker, MCPS is methodically implementing an approach (an ideology, really) which says that it's better for kids to be grouped all together in one class rather than be placed in classes at their level. This means that they are eliminating any classes deemed "GT" and taking away the chance for kids to be grouped with others at their level. This is happening now.

It may not be such a big deal in Western parts of the county, but here in East county, this means that a sixth grade classroom of 25 children may have kids who read at a second grade level all the way to a 12th grade level. Many of us believe that this is an impracticable idea that serves no one well, and that the highly able learners will get the short end of the stick, with less challenging material, more independent work without input and guidance from a teacher, fewer peers, etc. I will point out that this isn't a race/class issue -- there are highly able learners from all backgrounds who need access to challenge, peer groups, etc. Just look at the current makeup of the Eastern magnet to see that this is not a homogenous group of kids.

MCPS' own guidelines say that this in-classroom differentiation will work if there are three groups of about 8 kids in a class. If you live in East county, you know this isn't realistic. What's going to happen to the highly able learners in an east county school? Well, many of them won't be challenged, will be bored, won't live up to their potential, etc. Even worse for East county, many parents will throw up their hands and move or send their kids to private school, thereby depriving the schools of academic diversity, engaged, parents, etc. This will drive down property values and polarize the county, and it will deprive the more needy learners of the peers that this "diversified classroom" is supposed to give them. It is a BAD IDEA, driven by educational ideologues, not by parents with a stake in the process.

Let's not worry too much now about who is GT and is it 90th or 95th percentile. Right now, this is an ideological fight. If you believe that eliminating homogenous grouping by class in favor of in-class differentiation will result in teaching to the middle and abandonment of those kids who need extra challenge, you need to speak up now to the superintendent.